Step 1... House passed the..... You don't need a permit to carry concealed.... Bill

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


Those of you who say you're champions of the Constitution, but oppose this law are not constitutionalists.
 
jsxtreme said:
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


Those of you who say you're champions of the Constitution, but oppose this law are not constitutionalists.
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As I stated earlier: You have, HAVE to take the apply the context of when the constitutional language was written.
The right to keep and bear arms IS important to all of us. But that is the second half of the amendment. The FIRST half declares that "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state..." The framers of the Second Amendment were speaking in terms of a musket. Please also pay attention to the "well regulated" part of the statement. Yes, the militia was comprised of volunteers. Farmers, merchants, craftsman. They met periodically and drilled and practiced. There was ORDER.

We, as a society don't turn our kids loose with the keys to the car. The state does not automatically issue a driver's license. I do not feel that we should turn anyone and everyone loose with concealed weapons. Even operating a horse and buggy in the same era required some training.

That's my opinion.
 
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OldbutNew said:
As I stated earlier: You have, HAVE to take the apply the context of when the constitutional language was written.
The right to keep and bear arms IS important to all of us. But that is the second half of the amendment. The FIRST half declares that "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state..." The framers of the Second Amendment were speaking in terms of a musket. Please also pay attention to the "well regulated" part of the statement. Yes, the militia was comprised of volunteers. Farmers, merchants, craftsman. They met periodically and drilled and practiced. There was ORDER.

We, as a society don't turn our kids loose with the keys to the car. The state does not automatically issue a driver's license. I do not feel that we should turn anyone and everyone loose with concealed weapons. Even operating a horse and buggy in the same era required some training.

That's my opinion.
Click to expand...

Lack of ORDER is the problem. Carrying concealed will be EXACTLY like driving. People should get better with time and practice. Yes there will be accidents by all. Some people will be great, others will suck.. You will see really fast who doesnt mature and become responsible.
 
OldbutNew said:
As I stated earlier: You have, HAVE to take the apply the context of when the constitutional language was written.
The right to keep and bear arms IS important to all of us. But that is the second half of the amendment. The FIRST half declares that "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state..." The framers of the Second Amendment were speaking in terms of a musket. Please also pay attention to the "well regulated" part of the statement. Yes, the militia was comprised of volunteers. Farmers, merchants, craftsman. They met periodically and drilled and practiced. There was ORDER.

We, as a society don't turn our kids loose with the keys to the car. The state does not automatically issue a driver's license. I do not feel that we should turn anyone and everyone loose with concealed weapons. Even operating a horse and buggy in the same era required some training.

That's my opinion.
Click to expand...

:applause:
 
jsxtreme said:
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


Those of you who say you're champions of the Constitution, but oppose this law are not constitutionalists.
Click to expand...



There was a time when people thought that only certain people should be taught to read......friggin READING was considered dangerous. :)
 
Only land owners should have guns. (and be able to vote but I digress, a simple literacy test could probably handle 3/5ths of that) /sarcasm
 
OldbutNew said:
As I stated earlier: You have, HAVE to take the apply the context of when the constitutional language was written.
The right to keep and bear arms IS important to all of us. But that is the second half of the amendment. The FIRST half declares that "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state..." The framers of the Second Amendment were speaking in terms of a musket. Please also pay attention to the "well regulated" part of the statement. Yes, the militia was comprised of volunteers. Farmers, merchants, craftsman. They met periodically and drilled and practiced. There was ORDER.

We, as a society don't turn our kids loose with the keys to the car. The state does not automatically issue a driver's license. I do not feel that we should turn anyone and everyone loose with concealed weapons. Even operating a horse and buggy in the same era required some training.

That's my opinion.
Click to expand...

Driving a vehicle is deemed a privilege. Not a right. We as American citizens and non felons, have a Right to bear arms. Driving an vehicle isn't covered under a "right" so, don't want to remove you hijab for a drivers license photo?????? Well then, you don't get that privilege.

People murder with cars and trucks too. And knives and pressure cookers and so on. Should all of those require a license and a "board" to determine whether or not you can cut your steak?
 
I'd gather more than 50% of the cars on he road in the city of Detroit don't have insurance and/or the operator doesn't have a valid drivers license. And they don't give a shit about the constitution or the laws or your life. But they certainly care about legally getting a CPL and carrying a legal or stolen gun??

Hahaha

What world are you livin in??

How's the weather in fantasy land!
 
Anthony said:
I'd gather more than 50% of the cars on he road in the city of Detroit don't have insurance and/or the operator doesn't have a valid drivers license. And they don't give a shit about the constitution or the laws or your life. But they certainly care about legally getting a CPL and carrying a legal or stolen gun??

Hahaha

What world are you livin in??

How's the weather in fantasy land!
Click to expand...
Nice crisp 74* without a cloud in the sky...
 
Owners of cars capable of over 100mph need additional certifications. Crotch rockets have no place on the street. we can place whatever restrictions, licensing requirements. Those who can afford it will, those who can't will continue to do what they do. For a freedom loving group of guys we sure like to pick and choose who should have those freedoms. Pit bulls are okay if you've gone through handling and ownership certifications.
 
AutoRoc said:
There was a time when people thought that only certain people should be taught to read......friggin READING was considered dangerous. :)
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So the next time someone pulls out a book and demands my car keys or my wallet, I'd better hand them over??

I kid!! I hear what you're saying Denny. I put my opinion out there. That's all it is. And the statement about drivers hit home too. It's truly disturbing that HALF the citizens of Detroit are not legal in some form or another. It's also why the rest of Southeast Michigan pays some of the highest insurance rates in the Country.
 
BrainFearGone said:
Am I the only gun nut that thinks this is a bad idea? Some of these people in the classes I see at the range definitely need more training that the class even offers imo.
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Bah, I watched the idiots load the bullets into magazines backwards, what's the worst that can happen?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 
RSWANNABE said:
Think about it this way...

What really changes if this is passes? Those that want to carry guns will and those that don't want to won't. I've not been through the ccw classes in Michigan, but when I took mine in Tennessee I didn't get any real training on firearm use, or safety. I didn't have to take any safety classes before hand in order to take the permit class. Only had to hit the target at 3 ridiculously close distances and sit there and listen for the mandated hours of class.

So, in my opinion, I really saw no benefit from the class other than completing it allowed me to carry concealed.
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Seems like gun sales will require background checks for non CPL holders.

On that note, should I bother to renew my CPL?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 
OldbutNew said:
As I stated earlier: You have, HAVE to take the apply the context of when the constitutional language was written.
The right to keep and bear arms IS important to all of us. But that is the second half of the amendment. The FIRST half declares that "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state..." The framers of the Second Amendment were speaking in terms of a musket. Please also pay attention to the "well regulated" part of the statement. Yes, the militia was comprised of volunteers. Farmers, merchants, craftsman. They met periodically and drilled and practiced. There was ORDER.

We, as a society don't turn our kids loose with the keys to the car. The state does not automatically issue a driver's license. I do not feel that we should turn anyone and everyone loose with concealed weapons. Even operating a horse and buggy in the same era required some training.

That's my opinion.
Click to expand...

Driving is a privledge, not a right given by the Constitution.

You're welcome to your opinion, of course. My opinion is you can't claim to be pro second ammdement and then oppose this change. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth, and it's hypocritical.
 
Anthony said:
I'd gather more than 50% of the cars on he road in the city of Detroit don't have insurance and/or the operator doesn't have a valid drivers license. And they don't give a shit about the constitution or the laws or your life. But they certainly care about legally getting a CPL and carrying a legal or stolen gun??

Hahaha

What world are you livin in??

How's the weather in fantasy land!
Click to expand...

the anologies some people are drawing I seem to be far fetched. Driving and auto related crimes compared to the act of concealing a weapon.....idk. Comparing something that is 90% financially related (driving without a license or insurance. Granted just as STUPID, but most likely a financial situation) and we are talking about a task we are familiarized with everyday. I think something a little more similar would be allowing Amish people who have never driven or seen cars being allowed to drive vehicles because everyone should be able to. They should need proper training and licensing. The amount of people that will carry and never have shot just because they "can carry" will be high. What if they've never looked in to the rules of engagement or proper self defense ettiquette? This is why I can not attend any public ranges anymore. The amount of flagrant tom foolery that has unintentionally put my life at high risk. Not everyone is made to have a weapon in their hand and having one small step isn't a bad thing in my eyes.

some people cherish this right and hold it on a pedestal because they understand how quickly things can turn if something happen and everyone starts pulling out weapons.

Do you honestly think that many people truly conceal carry an illegal weapon? I don't think it's that many and those that are in that field are those who "will always do what thy want" and those are the ones that benefit. People are truly put out by going through a cpl process with the understanding of its purpose? Most people think everyone should be allowed suppressors while it took me 330 days for my approval. But I am not bent out of shape because I'd rather go through that then everyone be allowed to obtain one. The constitution was wrote on hemp paper right? I bet they were all high
 
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