Geothermal through DTE?

[LT1Pat]

I want to install a geothermal system which uses a special meter through DTE but they want a licensed electrician to install it all Does anyone know a way that I can do all the work and maybe just have a licensed electrician check it over and sign off on it? I've done it many times but paying an electrician just seems like a waste of money when I know what to do.

I want the well pump, furnace, blower motor, and hot water heater all put on the special meter using a separate breaker box. If a licensed contractor had to do it, anyone know how much it would cost?


Geothermal Energy Rate

Detroit Edison offers a special geothermal heating and cooling option that could save you approximately 50 percent off of the regular heating and cooling rate.

The geothermal option is a time-of-use rate

This means you will pay a lower price for energy used during off-peak hours and a higher price for energy used during on-peak hours.

• On peak: Monday though Friday, 10 a.m. to 7 p.m.
• Off peak: All other hours

The average energy use for most households is 75 percent during off-peak hours and 25 percent during on-peak hours. If, after installation of a geothermal system, your energy use is above the average on-peak use, consult the dealer who installed the system.

Seasonal rates apply

The geothermal heating and cooling option is also a seasonal rate. This means that you pay one rate during the summer (June through September) and a different rate during the winter (October through May).

What goes on a geothermal meter?

• Furnace
• Fans
• Motors
• Electric water heater
• Electric resistance heat
• Well pump (if it is on an open loop geothermal system)

Who qualifies?

To qualify for rate code 036, with a D 1.7 meter, homes or businesses must have either:

• Geothermal ground source heat pumps
• Split systems with a natural gas, propane or an oil booster, if the geothermal heat pump is designed to operate at least 80 percent of the time

Air source heat pumps qualify for rate code 086, with a D1.1 meter. This is the same rate as the interruptible air conditioning rate. Detroit Edison does not interrupt during the heating season of October through April.

How to get the Geothermal option

Residential and business customers must meet specific requirements to qualify for the geothermal heating and cooling option. Customers must meet the following requirements, and are responsible for the costs to:

• Have wiring installed by a licensed, independent electrical contractor for the separate geothermal meter (D 1.7)
• Install any other equipment that may be required for the geothermal rate
• Contact Detroit Edison’s customer service, at 800.477.4747, to request installation of the meter once the wiring is completed. Refer to the D 1.7 meter and rate code 036 when speaking to the DTE Energy customer representative.

Whether the geothermal system is for a new or existing home or building, it is always good to contact a Detroit Edison service planner before installing the system. A service planner will check that the existing electrical equipment can handle the extra load. Extra charges may apply if additional equipment is need for the larger load.

 

[avbcon12]

so your only question is if you can do the work? the only way to do that is to have an electrician friend who will pull permits and such.

 

[LT1Pat]

Pretty much, also curious if I were forced to have an electrician do it how much would it be?

Do any electricians on this board want to be my friend?

so your only question is if you can do the work? the only way to do that is to have an electrician friend who will pull permits and such.

 

[avbcon12]

when we install Geo systems in homes we build I think the going rate for the meterbox/meter/panel is roughly $300 alone (trying to pick the estimates apart in my head). plus materials of course

 

[91trunk]

Shoot Ron a.k.a Rat a PM. He owns Timberline Builders and is a sponsor

 

[LT1Pat]

If that's all it is then I would have no problem paying someone especially if I were able to supply the parts. Usually when I had quotes done on electrical stuff they always wanted thousands but that was also with their marked up "supplies". The buyer is always more motivated to find better pricing for the same stuff which is what I'd like to do.

when we install Geo systems in homes we build I think the going rate for the meterbox/meter/panel is roughly $300 alone (trying to pick the estimates apart in my head). plus materials of course

 

[LT1Pat]

Sent him a PM, thanks!

Shoot Ron a.k.a Rat a PM. He owns Timberline Builders and is a sponsor

 

[avbcon12]

If that's all it is then I would have no problem paying someone especially if I were able to supply the parts. Usually when I had quotes done on electrical stuff they always wanted thousands but that was also with their marked up "supplies".

well yes, this does not include and permit fees or anything like that either. We were also giving them the entire house to wire BUT installing a meter box and panel should take no longer than 2-3 hours will all materials on hand.

 

[LT1Pat]

Do you have any contacts for a good electrician? I would have no problem running all the conduit and mounting the panels before the electrician got there to do his thing with the meter/box just to speed things up but obviously I need their stamp of approval for DTE to give me the rate.

well yes, this does not include and permit fees or anything like that either. We were also giving them the entire house to wire BUT installing a meter box and panel should take no longer than 2-3 hours will all materials on hand.

 

[lethalss]

I would love to do Geo, don't you have to put pipes into the ground though?

 

[LT1Pat]

I already have a deep well and I need to trench a drain out to the pond (open loop).

Lots of different options if you don't have ponds or lakes. You can dig some vertical or horizontal loops or do an open loop with two wells.

Geothermal seems like a no brainer with all the incentives:

-Government gives you 30% off on all geothermal related expenses
-DTE gives you almost 1/2 off your electricity for the geothermal related electricity (including electric resistance heaters, hot water and the pumps!)
-The monthly savings on the geothermal are huge, not to mention isolating yourself from increasing oil prices. Your regular gas furnace might be 90% if it's a good one. Now compare that to a 250-400% equivalent geothermal setup.

I would love to do Geo, don't you have to put pipes into the ground though?

 

[Killjoy]

My buddy is an electrician and I'm sure would be able to do whatever you need as a side job. He actually has a geothermal in his house. The problem is that you have to have your Masters certificate in order to pull permits for other people (homeowners)... he's "only" a Journeyman.

Not sure where you're at in the process, but as long as you haven't had the inspector out/contacted, I don't see why you couldn't pull the permit as the homeowner, have my buddy (or other) do whatever to get the job done, then call for an inspection (acting like you did all the work yourself). Or does DTE have some other inspection process beyond the normal city?

If you want his info, PM me. I can also ask him how do-able it is to put in a Geothermal meter as a side job, if you want.

P.S. Digging trenches sucks. Digging trenches in frozen ground really sucks!

 

[LT1Pat]

I can get the permits I'm sure because I think in Michigan there aren't any laws saying that you need a license. I'm also a bit worried that if they inspect it they will see that my basement is finished and no permits were pulled for that but I doubt they would be paying attention if they were called for an electrical permit.

I already have a special electric hot water heater meter and that meter box would be used for the geothermal meter because the geothermal would pre-heat the hot water heater and therefore be included in the new meter rate.

Also directly to the right there is a meter box that is vacant which was probably an air conditioning meter which was probably removed in 03 when the unit was replaced with an all in one deal.

My buddy is an electrician and I'm sure would be able to do whatever you need as a side job. He actually has a geothermal in his house. The problem is that you have to have your Masters certificate in order to pull permits for other people (homeowners)... he's "only" a Journeyman.

Not sure where you're at in the process, but as long as you haven't had the inspector out/contacted, I don't see why you couldn't pull the permit as the homeowner, have my buddy (or other) do whatever to get the job done, then call for an inspection (acting like you did all the work yourself). Or does DTE have some other inspection process beyond the normal city?

If you want his info, PM me. I can also ask him how do-able it is to put in a Geothermal meter as a side job, if you want.

P.S. Digging trenches sucks. Digging trenches in frozen ground really sucks!

 

[LT1Pat]

I have decided that I need to contract the splitting of the live service to two meters, anyone know anyone? This work would require doing the work before the meters live.

 

[avbcon12]

I have decided that I need to contract the splitting of the live service to two meters, anyone know anyone? This work would require doing the work before the meters live.

thats what I thought the original question was regarding????

you need (or should have) a separate meter for the geo system sicne they draw high amps.

 

[LT1Pat]

Yup, I still am looking for names if you know anyone. I'm trying to get quotes...

I have 200A buried service but I heard DTE is lenient with putting a second meter without upgrading the buried service.

thats what I thought the original question was regarding????

you need (or should have) a separate meter for the geo system sicne they draw high amps.

 

[avbcon12]

yeah, we usually have a dedicated feed leading to the geo meter. Ill check to see if I know anyone in your area.

 

[LT1Pat]

Thanks, one contractor I called said they would split the feed wire into two via a box below the meter so they can feed both in parallel. He was the only quote I could find. All these other yellowpage numbers didn't answer or were out of business.

It seemed like 90% were home phone numbers where they were running their business out of a basement.

yeah, we usually have a dedicated feed leading to the geo meter. Ill check to see if I know anyone in your area.

 

[avbcon12]

It seemed like 90% were home phone numbers where they were running their business out of a basement.

a lot of electricians/ sub-contractors do. low overhead and they usually only need a van/ truck with their stuff.

 

[LT1Pat]

Doesn't it seem a bit unprofessional when you get a voicemail to a family home phone number? At least have a business related greeting so you know you dialed the right number.

a lot of electricians/ sub-contractors do. low overhead and they usually only need a van/ truck with their stuff.