Ford to move production of Focus/Cmax out of Michigan.
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WhiteHawk
Club Member
That is actually a prety good negotiating tactic by Ford. Instead of fighting for a raise, make the UAW fight to keep the production here. It is no coincidence that this announcement is taking place right around national contract time. It also gives the UAW incentive to make Ford the target for negotiating. Well played Ford!
-Geoff
-Geoff
RBOD
Club Member
I'm 100% positive that I'm going to catch hell for this, but the auto union needs to just go away. I know it's rooted too far to expunge, but there's not really a need any longer. (most) Import car makers aren't unionized and they seem to operate just fine, build a more quality product for less money, and their employees seem to be more happy and proud. Roush isn't union at all and I have great benefits and very fair pay.
raroz28
Forum Member
I doubt it. The die hard UAW supporters who would have tore your head off 10 years ago can't even justify those people anymore.
DetroitStyle
Club Member
The UAW has been lacing up their own cement boots for years now. They are incapable of comprehending that a change in their posturing is necessary for their survival. They won't compromise on anything in a time when compromise is vital for survival.
Scooter70
Club Member
Don't forget that Right To Work goes into effect as soon as a new contract is signed. Their numbers will fall very soon and (I think) signal the beginning of the end.
mikesfastss
Club Member
to a certain extent your right they will require a huge change to survive, but coming from a union officals mouth they have made huge comprimise over the last 2 contracts from pay, to benefits, cola, no pay raises for the skilled trades for over 10 years. They have allowed the 2 tier system in production and skilled trades. And a multitude of other items that we gave up.
mikesfastss
Club Member
not all companys require a union obviously, its my opinion thatbthe smaller companys have more of a personal relationship with workers and that seems to make the company a little more accountable for issues. In a company like one of the big three
Its essential to fair treatment if not they like to play volleyball with your problems and boune it from manager to manager till it gets dropped. Im a union man through and through and i see the games that are played and it sucks. I. Go to work every day as a tradesman and i want to make a good days pay not a fair one. Theres alot of hard working people in the plants that destroy thier body to make a days pay and build the car that you drive. I would like to give all the haters a chance to do thier job for a month and see how they feel after that.
hangemhigh
Club Member
Regardless of how you feel about unions, the fact is, Union strong=Economy strong. More disposable income drives our country.
JDanes
Forum Member
As a 26 year UAW meamber I have a lot to say good and bad about the UAW! The only reason for this move is to bring a new product to MAP plant in Wayne! You might be against or you might be for the UAW! As in all unions it is only as strong as its membership allow it to be! And as everything in life you have those who take advatage of or miss treat what they have or are not grateful for everything that they have! So you can say what you will about the UAW or any other union out there! It is not the masses that are bad in the unions it is the few so don't bash all of us for what we have or what we get. As for me i have worked hard and I will keep doing so!
mikesfastss
Club Member
amen.
Stalker
I removed my teeth on purpose....if you catch my d
I don't doubt the job is tough and physically taxing. I don't think many think that. The mentality is typically along the lines of the skill required to do the job is low (There is no arguing that) and the union mentality is archaic (which it is). If you run a comparison of the Big3 to the Big3 in Japan, they all staff about the same.
Ford and GM are around 2ook employees. I can't find any good data for Chrysler, Jeep, Dodge, Ram since they all seem to be considered separate companies, but the numbers I did see indicate they are probably around 150k to 200k. Obviously those three are unionized. The Three that aren't Unionized for comparison are Toyota, Nissan, and Honda. Toyota dwarfs the others in size with over 330k employees. Nissan and Honda are both around 200k. So for size comparison all things are equal, except Toyota. Average pay for the foreign companies is 30/hour. Average pay for the US workers is 28. So the argument that non union works in small companies, but not large doesn't work. The difference is total cost for an employee. In the US it's around $68/hour. That covers benefits, hourly pay, and covering future benefit costs. I can't find any data that specifically says new hires in the us plants get a pension so I don't know if that's playing into that number or not. The average cost for a foreign employee in the us plants is $48. Numbers don't tell the whole thing obviously. Employee satisfaction and turnover rate speak volumes about a company, but that data isn't readily available. The complaints and reasons I hear justifying the union just don't matter anymore and in the end, they are being held back from opportunities for greater than what the union gives.
The problem with the union is it's a 1950's mentality in employment practice, status, and benefits. In some areas things have definitely gone backwards over the last 65 years. The average length of time that an employee stays at a job in the US is 4 years. This is driven mainly by the employees. It's a competitive market (when not in an economic slump) and you can greatly benefit yourself by changing jobs. I'm living proof of that. I changed a job 4 years ago as well as a year ago. Between those two job changes I tripled my income. Show me that happening in a union shop. It's an opportunity that you lose out on by thinking it's the 1950's and an employee and a company stay together for a whole career. As an aside, the average length of tenure in a job globally is around 9 years. The US has one of the lowest. The countries with the highest are also mostly socialistic countries. The other reason the UAW is archaic is that is completely ignores the day and age we live in. You'd think with the mentality of UAW bosses that we live in a day and age where people get their news from the newsboy standing on the corner. That once inside the plants there's no means of seeing and recording what is happening. That companies will put worker safety at risk. You can't take a crap now without someone recording it let alone a company pulling off some horrific treatment of its employees.
All of this shows that the UAW is an added burden on the company with no added benefit and holds back it's employees. This is what 89% of the US working population understands and sees but 11% don't (Assuming all union members enjoy being in a union).
Ford and GM are around 2ook employees. I can't find any good data for Chrysler, Jeep, Dodge, Ram since they all seem to be considered separate companies, but the numbers I did see indicate they are probably around 150k to 200k. Obviously those three are unionized. The Three that aren't Unionized for comparison are Toyota, Nissan, and Honda. Toyota dwarfs the others in size with over 330k employees. Nissan and Honda are both around 200k. So for size comparison all things are equal, except Toyota. Average pay for the foreign companies is 30/hour. Average pay for the US workers is 28. So the argument that non union works in small companies, but not large doesn't work. The difference is total cost for an employee. In the US it's around $68/hour. That covers benefits, hourly pay, and covering future benefit costs. I can't find any data that specifically says new hires in the us plants get a pension so I don't know if that's playing into that number or not. The average cost for a foreign employee in the us plants is $48. Numbers don't tell the whole thing obviously. Employee satisfaction and turnover rate speak volumes about a company, but that data isn't readily available. The complaints and reasons I hear justifying the union just don't matter anymore and in the end, they are being held back from opportunities for greater than what the union gives.
The problem with the union is it's a 1950's mentality in employment practice, status, and benefits. In some areas things have definitely gone backwards over the last 65 years. The average length of time that an employee stays at a job in the US is 4 years. This is driven mainly by the employees. It's a competitive market (when not in an economic slump) and you can greatly benefit yourself by changing jobs. I'm living proof of that. I changed a job 4 years ago as well as a year ago. Between those two job changes I tripled my income. Show me that happening in a union shop. It's an opportunity that you lose out on by thinking it's the 1950's and an employee and a company stay together for a whole career. As an aside, the average length of tenure in a job globally is around 9 years. The US has one of the lowest. The countries with the highest are also mostly socialistic countries. The other reason the UAW is archaic is that is completely ignores the day and age we live in. You'd think with the mentality of UAW bosses that we live in a day and age where people get their news from the newsboy standing on the corner. That once inside the plants there's no means of seeing and recording what is happening. That companies will put worker safety at risk. You can't take a crap now without someone recording it let alone a company pulling off some horrific treatment of its employees.
All of this shows that the UAW is an added burden on the company with no added benefit and holds back it's employees. This is what 89% of the US working population understands and sees but 11% don't (Assuming all union members enjoy being in a union).
Stalker
I removed my teeth on purpose....if you catch my d
That's not true either. Union membership had dropped 50% in the last 30 years. The economy, for the most part, has remained strong. Research has found that unions help their members, but greatly impact consumers in a negative way. This mentality again falls into the 1950's mentality of things. The global economy is so dramatically different.
http://www.heritage.org/research/re...-how-labor-unions-affect-jobs-and-the-economy
