Birdie2000
Club Member
Awesome. Thank you!
How reliable are the auto transmissions in those?
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How reliable are the auto transmissions in those?
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DetroitStyle
Club Member
From what I understand, very very durable.
I saw this third gen last year at a Toledo dealership
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lucky7
Forum Member
3rd gen 4runners are one of the best little trucks out there. I have a 4th gen, and my mother has a 5th gen.
My uncle had a 2nd gen, which was arguably the least reliable of them all. It popped a head gasket at 338k, he sold it the same day for $750. It was on Craigslist several days later for $3500. Lol.
My uncle had a 2nd gen, which was arguably the least reliable of them all. It popped a head gasket at 338k, he sold it the same day for $750. It was on Craigslist several days later for $3500. Lol.
Rumblestrip
Forum Member
Don't worry about it, you'll be fine. They clear snow way faster up north than they do down here.
Rumblestrip
Forum Member
Winter tires like the Michelin X-Ice ones that Tin and I have mentioned are 50X better than having AWD.
Here is the article I did last year for Hooniverse where we drove on an ice rink at Notre Dame comparion AWD and FWD on all seasons and winter tires
http://hooniverse.com/2016/10/05/th...on-a-hockey-rink-with-michelin-and-tire-rack/
DetroitStyle
Club Member
3rd gen 4runners are one of the best little trucks out there. I have a 4th gen, and my mother has a 5th gen.
My uncle had a 2nd gen, which was arguably the least reliable of them all. It popped a head gasket at 338k, he sold it the same day for $750. It was on Craigslist several days later for $3500. Lol.
The 3.0s had a rep for head gaskets.... but mine had 170k on it when I sold it without issue. They can also be had with the 22RE for cylinder which is legendary.
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Birdie2000
Club Member
FWIW, I will almost certainly have snow tires on whatever vehicle I get, even AWD. I've never had them but I know plenty of people who swear by them.
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Tin
Club Member
They make a world of difference. I didn't think much about them until I got them for my Caprice. That car had no ABS or traction control and I never once found myself sliding or unable to get traction.
DoubleC
Club Member
I have a Subaru Outback w/ 2.5L and 6spd. I bought it new in 2013, currently have 101k miles on it. I think 2014 was the last year of the 6spd in the Outback. The Outback is a ubiquitous roadway feature in cities with high populations of crazy cat ladies and/or retired public school teachers- like T.C.
My commute is 60mi/day. It's a comfortable fit for my family of 4 and I'm ~6'6". The car is boring as shit to drive on nice sunny days, so I got a Jeep for that. The car is exceptional in shitty weather and especially deep mushy snow. It'd do just fine two-trackin' in the northern trails, too.
Complaints: The factory audio sound quality is horrible. The Subi's floor heat selection really means warm draft over your cold shoes, though your head will be sweating. It also seems to have an appetite for headlamps and tail lamps. I've replaced all the exterior lights and battery so far.
Praise: Poor weather driving. The AWD system is outstanding. The only times I've felt uncomfortable is when I'm doing something really stupid with traction control off. It's really easy to be that a-hole driver on I-94 w/ flaunting his AWD in the snow. The 2.5i Premium is the highest trim level available with 6psd, so the car is rather low-tech and very simple for DIY maintenance. Cops don't look twice at 'em, thieves don't want 'em, and they seem to have good longevity.
If you consider Subaru and the 2.5L, inquire about oil consumption and if the VIN is included in the class-action settlement. The settlement extended engine warranty to 100k. If the engine consumes >1/3qt within 1200mi, Subaru will exchange the shortblock under warranty. I'm going through that now.
My commute is 60mi/day. It's a comfortable fit for my family of 4 and I'm ~6'6". The car is boring as shit to drive on nice sunny days, so I got a Jeep for that. The car is exceptional in shitty weather and especially deep mushy snow. It'd do just fine two-trackin' in the northern trails, too.
Complaints: The factory audio sound quality is horrible. The Subi's floor heat selection really means warm draft over your cold shoes, though your head will be sweating. It also seems to have an appetite for headlamps and tail lamps. I've replaced all the exterior lights and battery so far.
Praise: Poor weather driving. The AWD system is outstanding. The only times I've felt uncomfortable is when I'm doing something really stupid with traction control off. It's really easy to be that a-hole driver on I-94 w/ flaunting his AWD in the snow. The 2.5i Premium is the highest trim level available with 6psd, so the car is rather low-tech and very simple for DIY maintenance. Cops don't look twice at 'em, thieves don't want 'em, and they seem to have good longevity.
If you consider Subaru and the 2.5L, inquire about oil consumption and if the VIN is included in the class-action settlement. The settlement extended engine warranty to 100k. If the engine consumes >1/3qt within 1200mi, Subaru will exchange the shortblock under warranty. I'm going through that now.
lucky7
Forum Member
^^ Didn't that EJ25 also have a habit of popping HG's prior to 2001? My biggest concern is with the timing belts on Subarus. I had a 9-2x Aero for a day and a half, because that's how long it took to throw the TB and destroy the top end. 
Still, I'd be driving a Forester with 3 pedals if I didn't buy the 4R.
I'll add another +1 for snows. Had the extra cheap Firestone Winterforce tires on this thing at the time. In 14", I think they cost me about $130 shipped.....for all 4.
I can't imagine having snows AND all wheel/4x4. That would be insane [fun as fuuuu].
Still, I'd be driving a Forester with 3 pedals if I didn't buy the 4R. I'll add another +1 for snows. Had the extra cheap Firestone Winterforce tires on this thing at the time. In 14", I think they cost me about $130 shipped.....for all 4.
I can't imagine having snows AND all wheel/4x4. That would be insane [fun as fuuuu].
DoubleC
Club Member
I think so. I believe that era also initiated the oil consumption complaints and eventual lawsuit, but isn't covered under the warranty. They are interference engines, IIRC the interval is 125k miles. I planned to do mine at ~115, but I'll have it done at 101k during the shortblock warranty.
wrath
Club Member
I'd lease a new truck. They're practically giving them away right now. Then when the market falls out of the bottom for used anything, pick up a used something you actually want. NW Michigan is the perfect place for a TJ or JK. Easy to park, usually don't have to go far (because the mileage sucks), and can go just about anywhere you'd want to go. You can pick up a nice TJ down south for $10k all day.
I wouldn't get anything FWD and low to the ground. I'd rather have a 2wd pickup with snow tires and 300lbs of sand in the bed. I live in Houghton for a long time and I first was up there with a 2wd manual transmission Sonoma with 1 wheel peel and a set of 235x75r15 Cooper Weathermasters. I drove it through two winters. You had to pick your hills carefully but it was still better than any FWD car, and way better than the FWD shitboxes at the time (my friend had a SRT4). I did get pretty good at using the parking brake to limit wheelspin.
That used to be a dirt/sand/some gravel 1.5 lane road. It was ruined because of all the tourists driving their shitbox FWD cars getting stuck in the sand or sliding into the lake because thinking they were Mario Andretti when in reality they were Stevie Wonder.
I wouldn't get anything FWD and low to the ground. I'd rather have a 2wd pickup with snow tires and 300lbs of sand in the bed. I live in Houghton for a long time and I first was up there with a 2wd manual transmission Sonoma with 1 wheel peel and a set of 235x75r15 Cooper Weathermasters. I drove it through two winters. You had to pick your hills carefully but it was still better than any FWD car, and way better than the FWD shitboxes at the time (my friend had a SRT4). I did get pretty good at using the parking brake to limit wheelspin.
That used to be a dirt/sand/some gravel 1.5 lane road. It was ruined because of all the tourists driving their shitbox FWD cars getting stuck in the sand or sliding into the lake because thinking they were Mario Andretti when in reality they were Stevie Wonder.
Tin
Club Member
Most people up there drive the same stuff we do down this way. No shortage of Foci, Cruzes, Darts, Tauruses, etc. They all manage just fine on all season tires at that. Most of the UP gets exponentially more snow than us, or the west coast of the lower peninsula at that. Blame overly confident drivers, not the cars they are driving. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. You can be an idiot and get stuck in any vehicle.
The problem is wet or packed deep snow. It's not a traction issue, it's ground clearance. If it's powder it's not much of an issue until it's very deep. Also cars won't make it very far down the trails up north due to the same issue...fall into a rut and you're sitting on the frame rails.
Rumblestrip
Forum Member
I drove my 92 5.0 Coupe through a full winter in the U.P on BFG Radial T/A's, I was stuck maybe twice that winter and I drove a TON of miles. Regularly had to drive from Marquette to the Soo and Escanaba. So when I recommend a GTI or any other FWD hot hatch on winter tires and say, "don't worry about it you'll be fine" as well have grown up and learded to drive on the west side of the state back when we'd have full weeks of no school because of all the snow, I may be giving you pretty solid info.
Birdie2000
Club Member
Thanks for the advice so far everyone!
FWIW, I get that most anything will be fine. I drove a F-body through a couple winters, a FWD with nearly bald tires through a few, RWD SUV, and have had an FWD sedan for the last 6. Never had a set of winter tires before. Etc, etc. The point is I'm looking for something better than fine, something that will excel in the snow not just muster its way through it. I'm not 100% opposed to another FWD vehicle (I actually test drove an extremely clean 2003 Golf TDI 5-speed right before making this thread), and I may just end up keeping my FWD sedan as I know it will be fine, but it's been a while and I feel like trying something new.
FWIW, I get that most anything will be fine. I drove a F-body through a couple winters, a FWD with nearly bald tires through a few, RWD SUV, and have had an FWD sedan for the last 6. Never had a set of winter tires before. Etc, etc. The point is I'm looking for something better than fine, something that will excel in the snow not just muster its way through it. I'm not 100% opposed to another FWD vehicle (I actually test drove an extremely clean 2003 Golf TDI 5-speed right before making this thread), and I may just end up keeping my FWD sedan as I know it will be fine, but it's been a while and I feel like trying something new.
Tin
Club Member
I once drove a '95 Caprice ex-MSP cruiser with bald tires and no weight in the back for a winter :lol:. Those TDI Golfs are pretty nice cars. You'll be getting 40mpg+ and it will be great in the snow. Either way, get some winter tires, they help immensely no matter if your car is FWD, RWD, or AWD.
Again, it all depends on where he wants to go. It sounded to me like he will sometimes venture off main (plowed) roads. You can find TONS of roads up north that are never even plowed. Places where 4x4s with good tires get stuck. Ditto in the summer. Some of the backroads (two track style) are simply impassable to ANY car. He might want something with ground clearance, depending on where he plans to drive. That's what he will have to decide.