DBK
Club Member
Fucking. Amazing.
Laguna Seca Mustang vs. ZL1 Camaro
- Thread starter DetroitStyle
- Start date
Fucking. Amazing.
DBK
Club Member
I love this question. :lol:
GM knows ZL1 is going to get it's ass beat in the quarter mile. They know it. For whatever reason, Al O has also felt the need to run his mouth about 0-60, which a) is a pretty useless performance metric these days and b) I'm quite sure he'll live to regret. So they get on this "but what about this 14 mile track in Germany huh?? Huh??" deal. First of all, I find it hilarious that the moment MegaCamaro started looking like it was going to get it's head beat in on the drag strip, the ultimate mullet mobile drag car in history because a corner carver. Give me a break. I'd be stunned if 10% of Camaro customers could point out Germany on a map, and further stunned if 10% of that 10% had ever been to a road course. People that buy muscle cars race them mostly at drag strips and on the street.
Ford, like most manufacturers, has had lots of stuff testing there. Last time I was at the Nurburgring, there was a hoard of Nissan Jukes on the circuit. What was the Juke time! What was the Juke time! They must be hiding something. As I'm sure some of the uber-Ring fans from GM know, to get a "Ring Time", you have to shut it down and rent it exclusively for that purpose, otherwise you enter the circuit at the start/finish. You have to book it months in advance because you can only shut it down during designated industry days. When Ford was there last time for their limited window of pre-release testing, they chose to use it for tuning and development, rather than marketing purposes. What a novel concept!
Furthermore, and this is where it really gets amusing, GM introduced the ZL1 in February of 2011. They sent out a Ring Time in October of 2011. That's an interval of about 8 months. Ford introduced the GT500 at the LA auto show in October 2011. GM, Al Oopsensheiße and his fellow like-minded bitches want to get lippy that there isn't a number 2 or 3 months later? Um, okay. Like I said before, remember the last thread where we had this discussion. I've got it bookmarked, so keep your bumpin' fingers ready.
p.s, 12.6@116. Fucking awesome. :lol:
GM knows ZL1 is going to get it's ass beat in the quarter mile. They know it. For whatever reason, Al O has also felt the need to run his mouth about 0-60, which a) is a pretty useless performance metric these days and b) I'm quite sure he'll live to regret. So they get on this "but what about this 14 mile track in Germany huh?? Huh??" deal. First of all, I find it hilarious that the moment MegaCamaro started looking like it was going to get it's head beat in on the drag strip, the ultimate mullet mobile drag car in history because a corner carver. Give me a break. I'd be stunned if 10% of Camaro customers could point out Germany on a map, and further stunned if 10% of that 10% had ever been to a road course. People that buy muscle cars race them mostly at drag strips and on the street.
Ford, like most manufacturers, has had lots of stuff testing there. Last time I was at the Nurburgring, there was a hoard of Nissan Jukes on the circuit. What was the Juke time! What was the Juke time! They must be hiding something. As I'm sure some of the uber-Ring fans from GM know, to get a "Ring Time", you have to shut it down and rent it exclusively for that purpose, otherwise you enter the circuit at the start/finish. You have to book it months in advance because you can only shut it down during designated industry days. When Ford was there last time for their limited window of pre-release testing, they chose to use it for tuning and development, rather than marketing purposes. What a novel concept!
Furthermore, and this is where it really gets amusing, GM introduced the ZL1 in February of 2011. They sent out a Ring Time in October of 2011. That's an interval of about 8 months. Ford introduced the GT500 at the LA auto show in October 2011. GM, Al Oopsensheiße and his fellow like-minded bitches want to get lippy that there isn't a number 2 or 3 months later? Um, okay. Like I said before, remember the last thread where we had this discussion. I've got it bookmarked, so keep your bumpin' fingers ready.
p.s, 12.6@116. Fucking awesome. :lol:
DBK
Club Member
WhiteHawk
Club Member
So the answer to my question would be "Yes, they went to the Ring with the GT500 and didn't release times". So you are saying they are going back in a few months for marketing purposes?
I still don't see why you are getting so bent. You seem overly sensitive to the topic for some reason.
-Geoff
I still don't see why you are getting so bent. You seem overly sensitive to the topic for some reason.
-Geoff
DBK
Club Member
I'm glad you figured it out!
DBK
Club Member
Um, I did type it.
I honestly have no idea because they weren't there looking to run a number.
Hotrodhawk
Club Member
So the GT500 ring team don't use lap time numbers to judge tuning a vehicle ... interesting 
Stalker
I removed my teeth on purpose....if you catch my d
So the GT500 ring team don't use lap time numbers to judge tuning a vehicle ... interesting
I'm not an engineer, but from what I've gathered in this thread alone, the Ring is the ultimate 'all scenarios' for road types and situations. I would assume if they were there for testing/tunning, then they wouldn't be running the whole track balls to the walls as much as they would seeing set points of return on testing equipment. So at turn 2, then record data, finish the lap. next lap change the vehicles speed or work on the systems to adjust the performance and see how it then performs in turn 2 again. Using only the data from turn 2 as the basis for a successful change. I just picked turn 2, and obviously they would do more than just one turn per trip around the ring, but the basic point is that they aren't running the Ring per say to get a track time as much as they are looking for one location that has the ability to do many test in a closed environment.
I am an engineer and I have done chassis/suspension tuning work on a track. And no, you don't always go to a track to get a "best lap". Lap time is but one of MANY measurement criteria...depending on what you're developing. I've run tests with upwards of 70 data channels. I've seen other tests run with over 130 data channels.
4 cam tbird
Club Member
A completely unrelated car, but completely related to the topic of vehicle tuning on the ring.
Note the first video, all the traffic and what not you see on track with the test car. In the GM videos they tell you they were there for 2 weeks. This was the same trip the ZL1 was on. Obviously they didn't shut the Ring down for two entire weeks and spend all that time hot lapping. Its 14 miles! You don't run a lap of it in a street car, go make a few changes and then go make another lap to compare times with. You go out, you see how the car feels, how it behaves, get data on what is happening in certain parts of the track, areas with transitions, how it feels dropping into and launching out of the carousels, etc, etc, etc. You take all that subjective and objective data from a lap, you make some changes, then you go do it again, more subjective feel, what areas of the track did you make it feel better on, what areas did you make it feel worse on, more objective data taken. You take all that data and repeat the cycle. Making the car feel good will lead to good lap times. You don't need to spend the whole time hot lapping to make good lap times come. And at the end of the day, they are still street cars, and making a car that doesn't inspire confidence in the driver isn't going to result in a win in the market place.
Note the first video, all the traffic and what not you see on track with the test car. In the GM videos they tell you they were there for 2 weeks. This was the same trip the ZL1 was on. Obviously they didn't shut the Ring down for two entire weeks and spend all that time hot lapping. Its 14 miles! You don't run a lap of it in a street car, go make a few changes and then go make another lap to compare times with. You go out, you see how the car feels, how it behaves, get data on what is happening in certain parts of the track, areas with transitions, how it feels dropping into and launching out of the carousels, etc, etc, etc. You take all that subjective and objective data from a lap, you make some changes, then you go do it again, more subjective feel, what areas of the track did you make it feel better on, what areas did you make it feel worse on, more objective data taken. You take all that data and repeat the cycle. Making the car feel good will lead to good lap times. You don't need to spend the whole time hot lapping to make good lap times come. And at the end of the day, they are still street cars, and making a car that doesn't inspire confidence in the driver isn't going to result in a win in the market place.
DBK
Club Member
4 cam tbird said:
"At the record attempt I drove 2 x 2 laps with a cool down lap in between for both mine and the car´s sake. I couldn't have driven one single lap more. I wouldn't have liked to drive a single meter (3 feet) more with myself at the wheel at that speed."
-Jan Magnussen on running the Z06 to get a lap time for GM.
4 cam tbird
Club Member
Coming from a professional ENDURANCE race driver. I don't think they had anyone like that on that trip, even for the lap of record in the ZL1. The lap they give the partial time for in the video above certainly was no one like that. "Just" an engineer, a highly trained engineer, but still an engineer.
DBK
Club Member
I'm sure. I'm just pointing out there's a difference between observing a time in the course of a lap and running a lap to get a number, regardless of who is driving.
