Just a little I've been doing for the next P-headed venture.

TooSlo86

TooSlo86

Club Member
Since I was able to get the car into the 11's on the stock explorer long block and P-heads this last fall I figured it was time to implement some tweaks to another explorer long block I have. I wasn't able to locate affordable (key word), suitable used light-weight pistons and rods this year so I'll have to run the retarded heavy speed pro flat tops I already had sitting around.

The GT40P heads are now with Scott Brown having the new valves installed, getting milled down as far as safely possible, and getting a competition valve job to be followed up by a nice light-weight package valve spring kit to get rid of my valve float through the traps at 6500.

Now that I have finished the work on the lifter valley, timing gear area and the main webbing the block has been dropped off at Reichert's for a plane jane 30 over bore to fit the above mentioned brick heavy speed pros. Once that comes back and I can do an initial mock up it'll be going back for a decking dependent upon how far down in the hole these things sit and ptv clearance.

I started polishing up the stock crank over the weekend and got 3 of the throws done. I had started working over a set of stock rods, but since I'm still going to be swinging 570 gram slugs I've put that aside to run un-worked stock rods for this year.

There isn't enough of a gain (so says Scott) to warrant the price tag on another custom cam so I will be using the same one that he ground for me last year that is currently in the car.

So basically, I had this whole "all out" build in my head, and planned out with Scott, and then....no overtime all winter :cry:, Due to financial restraints it's now a serious budget build using all stock internals with as many low dollar tweaks as I can think of. My hopes are with the increase in compression, increase in flow from the good valves and the comp. valve job along with getting windage, and oil control in check I can get this pig solidly into the mid 11's and occasionally dip it even lower while using stock parts, and no power adder. My one concern is the matter of going from my current Typhoon upper/lower down to an explorer intake. I'm really not sure how much (if any) I'll be giving up there. I guess time will tell after it's together and sorted out. Should be fun!

block small.jpgcrank small.JPGcrank small1.JPGcrank small2.jpgintake small.jpg
 
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nice! what method are you using to polish the crank throws? Would this require the balance on the crank to be checked?

Also, is the lifter valley coated, or polished?
 
I have alot of grinding/polishing stones for my grinder, and even more patience, which is a good thing since I lack funding, lol. The entire bottom end is going to have to be balanced regardless, however I am not removing excess weight (at least not a bunch) since I am still going to be running stock rods and heavy stock type pistons. If I were to remove too much than there would be issues with the bobweights when it's time for the balance. So my goal is to not vastly disrupt that but more to just polish it up to keep the oil from latching onto it.

The lifter valley is just polished using the same method I'm using on the crank throws. Yes,it was a biaaatch.

Worth mentioning is that the engine in the car now has not had any of this done, aside from the cam and springs it hasn't ever been apart.

Thanks

Here is a shot after the initial phase;

intial grind.JPG
 
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Those blocks need all the metal they can get I thought?? Or is this like polishing rods to make them stronger?? :)


Looks cool!
 
Well since this is going to be a P-headed NA application that will not even be remotely approaching the danger zone I'm not concerned with the block. I would like to go with a .060 piston but the walls just won't support it while maintaining a good ring seal. So I guess that'll be when I can afford an aftermarket one.....yeah, right!

Funny you mention the polishing of the rods. I initially started playing with a stock one, and have gotten it's weight down considerably by polishing and modifying it while keeping it's integrity (we think, only one way to find out) but since I can't afford light pistons I've aborted that idea for now. There is no sense in subjecting a lightened rod to a heavy piston load. These would have been shot peened after the polish and work to relieve stress, not just simply polished. I think most consider smoothing casting flashes and sharp corners to relieve the stress points their polishing and call it done without shot peening them and now they are magically stronger.
 
AutoRoc said:
Looks cool!
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I'm sure hoping there is more to it than just that! I guess time will tell.......

But that is one of the reasons I'm keeping the current engine in tact, waiting to go when called upon. ;-)
 
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TooSlo86 said:
These would have been shot peened after the polish and work to relieve stress, not just simply polished. I think most consider smoothing casting flashes and sharp corners to relieve the stress points their polishing and call it done without shot peening them and now they are magically stronger.
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Actually, FWIW, shot peening actually introduces compressive stresses into the material in addition to reducing stress risers. It prestresses the surface and work hardens the material while removing tensile stresses that occur from grinding (or polishing) and heat treating. So it kinda swaps bad stresses for good pre-stressing. Smoothing the casting flashes and sharp corners addresses locations with stress risers, peening is the next level in reducing stress risers. Peening improves fatigue life and does increase ultimate strength limits, but it's good to note that the UTS is often diue to removing the stress risers, so I think many overstate increase in mechanical properties from peening. The bigger benefit is the dramatic increase in fatigue life after shot peening. I say all this because I think it might be even more worthwhile to polish and peen your rods when running the heavier pistons. Higher tensile stresses from the heavier pistons, higher fatigue loads.

That said, who does your shot peening?
 
beertestr said:
Actually, FWIW, shot peening actually introduces compressive stresses into the material in addition to reducing stress risers. It prestresses the surface and work hardens the material while removing tensile stresses that occur from grinding (or polishing) and heat treating. So it kinda swaps bad stresses for good pre-stressing. Smoothing the casting flashes and sharp corners addresses locations with stress risers, peening is the next level in reducing stress risers. Peening improves fatigue life and does increase ultimate strength limits, but it's good to note that the UTS is often diue to removing the stress risers, so I think many overstate increase in mechanical properties from peening. The bigger benefit is the dramatic increase in fatigue life after shot peening. I say all this because I think it might be even more worthwhile to polish and peen your rods when running the heavier pistons. Higher tensile stresses from the heavier pistons, higher fatigue loads.

That said, who does your shot peening?
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Wow, that's what I've read, just in less words LOL. Yea, I've seen the major differences in fatigue life first hand. I do dynamic fatigue testing of steering gear components. We had a certain gear that the teeth kept breaking on under typical production methods. The proposed answer was to shot peen the teeth. In untreated gears we would see breakage prior to minimum requirements outlined. With shot peened teeth I was running them out 8.5 times that and still not fracturing them. Good stuff! I would either send them to Reichert's in Owosso or hand them off to Scott Brown of Competition Components in Okemos since he is working with me on this budget build. I never did think of it in that way, in terms of actually using them with the heavy pistons, hmmmmm. Thanks!
 
Well yesterday was a day of good news, and bad news. The good news was that I got word from Scott that the heads checked out good and they have installed the new valves and completed the competition valve job. They did require guide inserts on the exhaust side though. Now he is going to cc them to figure out what is needed to cut them down to be where we would like on them.

On the bad news side, I had taken my block into Reicherts to be bored over to the 30 over pistons I had. There was one cylinder that had a ridge that didn't go all the way around the cylinder. I figured this would clean up at 30 over. Well the ridge did but unfortunately I guess there was a lip under it that didn't. They are going to let me know if it cleans up at 40 today. Either way, I don't have 40 over pistons, and I don't really feel like purchasing cheap ones to fit when I know I should just do it once with the good ones I originally had planned to use. I've got a couple "budget" options at this point and one may just be to use the 30 over block those pistons came in. Problem is, I didn't even pay any attention to the condition of the cylinders at teardown much less measure them. In addition to that, I just don't have it in me to polish up another block at this point.

So here I am, waiting on word about the .040" cut.
 
What is your current setup for the motor to run 11's? My buddy just picked up a 95 cobra longblock, and is going to do some head work to it and a cam setup, and then it's going in a 2000 lb miata. Sounds like whatever setup you're using is deff working great to get a fox in the 11's.
 
It's not really in the engine as it's just a stock high mileage Explorer Long Block that I put in back in 06 when it only had 90k miles. Save for the custom cam and valve spring kit and your typical bolt ons. It's just a matter of sticking with the set up and making adjustments over the course of all the years. One of the big ones is constantly working on tweaking the tune and getting the car to leave hard in excess of 6k rpm on the drag radials.

In a 2000lb car this thing would be a riot!

I'm actually a bit nervous that even though I'm making tweaks to the new one that should give me a substantial gain I'm still worried that I'm going to be disappointed due to it being an untested, un dialed in set up. I'm also worried that the current one is just one of those "special" ones from the factory that just somehow really works. I don't think so since this same engine morphed from low-mid 13's originally to this over the years, but it still worries me. That's why the current engine is going to stay in tact aside from donating the cam for the new one. That way I won't disrupt a good thing and I'll have it as a fall-back.
 
That is deff not something you see every day. My old 95 had a 347/canfield heads, jay allen cam and systemax intake with a tko, 4.10 rear and slicks and I only got it down to an 11.8, which is slower than your best lol. but like you said I only took it to the track a couple times and each time it ran faster, but I cant think of any other stock p headed motor with a cam that i've seen run 11's. deff takes a lot of patience to keep working on it after the 13's at the beginning.

My buddy is hoping with around 280-300whp from this engine and a raceweight of around 2300 that a mid to low 11 is in reach assuming he can get the thing to hook up.
 
Yea, it's for sure taken some work, but 99% of the reason I've gone this route and just kept tweaking it was due to $ constraints. I just can't ever seem to drop the coin for the good stuff, so I work with what I have which forces me to look/or think outside the box. The following thread, and NMRA Factory Stock guys have given me the push and little bits and pcs of info to use for quite some time. If I were on this list I would be 22 out of 50 surrounded by mostly aluminum headed 302s. http://forums.corral.net/forums/drag-racing/1074786-%2Anew%2A-50-fastest-stock-shortblock-n-5-0s-%2Anew%2A.html

I don't see why he couldn't get down to the low 11's after working out the bugs to make it hook up, hell there's guys on here that have ran some incredible #'s on stock lower ends, it's just not as broadcast as on the Corral.

Oh, and I guarantee that '95 was dragging around alot more weight too. What were your trap speeds?
 
Little update. We did end up going 40 over on the block and it is now having the deck squared up. The idea of polishing/lightening the stock rods has been abandoned due to the time involved and the cost to get them to equal aftermarket rods so a set of Probe lightweights have been ordered. (on back-order for eternity it seems) The pistons will be ordered to our specs on compression height once the block is done and we have measurements. They will have a nice small .043/.043/3mm ring package, and smaller valve reliefs to fit the stock sized valves to get a tiny bit of compression back.

I got my 1st peek at the heads since I dropped them off back in January. They have since been cc'd originally at a whopping 63cc's, and cut down to 54cc's. Guide inserts on the exhaust side, guides turned down for the smaller spring package, and they've also been treated to some nice aftermarket stock sized valves and have been given his race valve job. They will also have received a nice lightweight spring package that can handle the rigors of the expected r's through the traps, unlike the current springs at less (anticipated) mph.

I've also just finished fitting an S&W 8 point cage into the car in hopes it will be required after this all comes together. :icon_bigg

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Made a little headway on the 308 build today. 1st off I had a couple parts machined up in my favorite method...FREE. And I also picked up my custom pistons from Scotty Brown @ Competition Components. Now it will probably sit dead in the water until I can start shi__ng $$ since I'm tapped out. With the 1st race I wanted to do merely a month and a half out it doesn't look promising. :(

Here's the pics of the TB to Explorer Spacer and the worth-a-shot since it's free plenum spacer. I realize this will most likely do the exact opposite of what I want/need but it's so simple to try out at the track and or dyno I can't resist.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.460280214052320.1073741829.389538861126456&type=1&l=233ecd4938

Then here are the sexy, sexy, pistons ;)

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.460284424051899.1073741830.389538861126456&type=1&l=ed671e326e

I'm not exactly sure what the deal is with my Probe Industries rods that I ordered March 1st, but I've spoke with Mark O'Neal on a few occasions and Summit should have received them by now. Note to anyone else, order directly through Probe!
 
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