Ford Profit Sharing for Salaried Shamed into Increase

WhiteHawk

WhiteHawk

Club Member
Long story short: Ford white collar bonus number was 54%, came out a week or two ago (it is part of a long calculation I can describe if anyone cares). Since then, it leaked that Ford management was getting like 135%, and GM puts the real zinger on them by going to 200% across the board for white collar staff. The Ford CFO then gets hammered at a "Town Hall" style meeting about the process and targets, so Ford does an about face, bumps it to 108%. No idea what Stellantis is doing (anyone know?).

The funny part is, I think the industry in general starting to realize that they can go work at GM and pretty much just stay at home like they are today. So if you are living in Canton, it's not like you have to drive to Warren, you just get paid by someone else to do the same thing from home. I think this is part of a bigger wake-up call coming to the entire Big 3. I believe that Ford did the 180 because they realized that they were about to lose a bunch of people. It's a crazy new world post-covid for people with desk jobs.

Here is the read: https://www.detroitnews.com/story/b...e-salaried-employees-after-outcry/6790097001/

-Geoff
 
WhiteHawk said:
Long story short: Ford white collar bonus number was 54%, came out a week or two ago (it is part of a long calculation I can describe if anyone cares). Since then, it leaked that Ford management was getting like 135%, and GM puts the real zinger on them by going to 200% across the board for white collar staff. The Ford CFO then gets hammered at a "Town Hall" style meeting about the process and targets, so Ford does an about face, bumps it to 108%. No idea what Stellantis is doing (anyone know?).

The funny part is, I think the industry in general starting to realize that they can go work at GM and pretty much just stay at home like they are today. So if you are living in Canton, it's not like you have to drive to Warren, you just get paid by someone else to do the same thing from home. I think this is part of a bigger wake-up call coming to the entire Big 3. I believe that Ford did the 180 because they realized that they were about to lose a bunch of people. It's a crazy new world post-covid for people with desk jobs.

Here is the read: https://www.detroitnews.com/story/b...e-salaried-employees-after-outcry/6790097001/

-Geoff
Click to expand...

Stellantis lost a TON of talent to GM. I saw it first hand. When I left in Oct, HR wasn't even interested in talking to me once they learned my notice was given for me to leave for GM. Seriously, TONS of ex-FCA joined GM over the last 12-18 months.

Stellantis/legacy FCA isn't transparent about the calc and even less about merits and paybands. They are veeeeery slowly getting a little better, but it's a very mysterious process, completed in cloak and shadow. Managers are just provided a number to share with the staff - the comp statement and discussion we get at GM doesn't exist there. I will say - if you get a "5" in the 9-box, you get 90% of your target. Nice messaging, eh? "Most people get a 5, it means you are a great employee - oh, but we'll penalize you 10%". Fun fact, as a manager, I wasn't privvy to what any of of my people made. I also had 0 input into their compensation, only on their 9 box rating.

Stellantis most likely won't announce theirs for white collar until mid-march. My opinion is they always wait to see what Ford and GM do, they also wait to see how the current year is going to see if they can justify lowering the payout for the prior year. Past few years have had payouts around 80%.

OK, enough bitching. I rejoined The General in Nov, so I get a very little proration of that 200%. Still thankful to be back, and I knew I'd take a hit on the bonus in the year of transition. Little bummed it took months to get in (I was hoping to come over in July, ended up in Nov) and also that I made the jump during a record year. I don't see Stellantis giving a massive payout, so I probably didn't miss out on much.

If you want to hear about how it works (or doesn't) at Stellantis, I'd be more than happy to give you a quick call on Teams or something Geoff.
 
Atrus said:
Stellantis lost a TON of talent to GM. I saw it first hand. When I left in Oct, HR wasn't even interested in talking to me once they learned my notice was given for me to leave for GM. Seriously, TONS of ex-FCA joined GM over the last 12-18 months.

Stellantis/legacy FCA isn't transparent about the calc and even less about merits and paybands. They are veeeeery slowly getting a little better, but it's a very mysterious process, completed in cloak and shadow. Managers are just provided a number to share with the staff - the comp statement and discussion we get at GM doesn't exist there. I will say - if you get a "5" in the 9-box, you get 90% of your target. Nice messaging, eh? "Most people get a 5, it means you are a great employee - oh, but we'll penalize you 10%". Fun fact, as a manager, I wasn't privvy to what any of of my people made. I also had 0 input into their compensation, only on their 9 box rating.

Stellantis most likely won't announce theirs for white collar until mid-march. My opinion is they always wait to see what Ford and GM do, they also wait to see how the current year is going to see if they can justify lowering the payout for the prior year. Past few years have had payouts around 80%.

OK, enough bitching. I rejoined The General in Nov, so I get a very little proration of that 200%. Still thankful to be back, and I knew I'd take a hit on the bonus in the year of transition. Little bummed it took months to get in (I was hoping to come over in July, ended up in Nov) and also that I made the jump during a record year. I don't see Stellantis giving a massive payout, so I probably didn't miss out on much.

If you want to hear about how it works (or doesn't) at Stellantis, I'd be more than happy to give you a quick call on Teams or something Geoff.
Click to expand...

This 90% payout for a mid-pack rating is becoming more common and has been the current approach at my company for a few years now. The way HR explains it, is that in order to reward the high performers the lesser performers will need to take a haircut. The problem with this is that they set the rating distribution curve and then work with accounting on how to fund it. If there is no discretionary funds reserved as a backstop, people are going to be pissed.

Speaking from experience as a leader, you had better hope that you have at least some people getting fired, quitting or put on action plans because without that you won’t have budget to truly reward those that earned it. Groups with a lot of middle performers and a few upper performers end up getting shafted because either everyone gets about the same bonus with no differentiation or the middle performers pay to reward the top talent.
 
GM has done 90% for the middle box too, not in the last few years though. I think 2016ish was the last time.

Welcome back Atrus! It's funny you talk about the talent drain from Chrysler. When I was in a smaller group five years ago I talked with my manager about hiring all the time, and he said that he wouldn't even interview Chrysler people anymore. The word had gotten out that people didn't want to leave Chrysler, but the only way they could get a raise was by showing an offer from another OEM.

I have always bled GM blue, but it does seem to be the hot place to work right now in the Big 3. Hasn't really been that way since early 2000s. I think Ford has really been screwing their white collar lately and it is going to come back to haunt them. For the past few years at least, the UAW bonus has exceeded the salaried, sometimes by double. More power to the UAW, but you have to show some love to your engineers every now and then.

Not to leave the UAW guys out, but they have gotten the shaft this year too. In order to get their full payout, they have to get a certain amount of hours per year - no exceptions. Because of Covid and chip shortage, hardly any plants are getting full payout, and since it is contract, there is not much they can do about it. From a labor market standpoint, this is a bad time not to be taking care of employees. Bad long term strategy.

-Geoff
 
WhiteHawk said:
Long story short: Ford white collar bonus number was 54%, came out a week or two ago (it is part of a long calculation I can describe if anyone cares). Since then, it leaked that Ford management was getting like 135%, and GM puts the real zinger on them by going to 200% across the board for white collar staff. The Ford CFO then gets hammered at a "Town Hall" style meeting about the process and targets, so Ford does an about face, bumps it to 108%. No idea what Stellantis is doing (anyone know?).

The funny part is, I think the industry in general starting to realize that they can go work at GM and pretty much just stay at home like they are today. So if you are living in Canton, it's not like you have to drive to Warren, you just get paid by someone else to do the same thing from home. I think this is part of a bigger wake-up call coming to the entire Big 3. I believe that Ford did the 180 because they realized that they were about to lose a bunch of people. It's a crazy new world post-covid for people with desk jobs.

Here is the read: https://www.detroitnews.com/story/b...e-salaried-employees-after-outcry/6790097001/

-Geoff
Click to expand...
Thank GOODNESS someone spoke up to the right person.
 
I bleed GM blue. I'm happy 2021 was a good year for them financially. I don't currently work for the Big 3 or automotive, but previously have, and while I'm happy to see the industry had a good year - really wished leadership would take a minute and think about the optics & practicality of this. Last year was dominated by daily news headlines on the chip shortage and supply chain issues limiting production, you had dealer lots sitting mostly empty with no new cars to sell, OEMs de-contenting vehicles to keep production running, and dealers imposing ridiculous 'market adjustment' markups. All signs of a struggling industry/business year, yet, now GM is awarding a 200% Team GM achievement? I don't get it...

I have family that works there and I'm happy for them and the financial betterment of my family. The immediate gratification is great. However, I'd be lying if I said I'm not shaking my head in disbelief... and didn't have concerns on the optics and PR side of this. This is the same company that had to temporarily reduce their employee's salaries by 20% to survive 2020/COVID? The same company that needed a bridge loan in 2009 to survive the great recession? Just seems like GM could have made the white collar workers happy with a solid 100-140% number, and invested the remainder in their rainy day fund, or advancing their EV program so that Tesla and Chinese EV invasion doesn't eat their lunch in a few years.

I don't know - maybe GM felt they needed to do this to keep top talent from fleeing to sexy EV startups like Tesla, Rivian or even the Chinese? 200% just seems off and I'm fairly confident this is going to come back and bite them at some point in the near future. That's the highest payout in over 20, 25, 30 years?

Again, happy for them in the moment. Just think it may be a bit short sighted.
 
WhiteHawk said:
GM has done 90% for the middle box too, not in the last few years though. I think 2016ish was the last time.

Welcome back Atrus! It's funny you talk about the talent drain from Chrysler. When I was in a smaller group five years ago I talked with my manager about hiring all the time, and he said that he wouldn't even interview Chrysler people anymore. The word had gotten out that people didn't want to leave Chrysler, but the only way they could get a raise was by showing an offer from another OEM.

I have always bled GM blue, but it does seem to be the hot place to work right now in the Big 3. Hasn't really been that way since early 2000s. I think Ford has really been screwing their white collar lately and it is going to come back to haunt them. For the past few years at least, the UAW bonus has exceeded the salaried, sometimes by double. More power to the UAW, but you have to show some love to your engineers every now and then.

Not to leave the UAW guys out, but they have gotten the shaft this year too. In order to get their full payout, they have to get a certain amount of hours per year - no exceptions. Because of Covid and chip shortage, hardly any plants are getting full payout, and since it is contract, there is not much they can do about it. From a labor market standpoint, this is a bad time not to be taking care of employees. Bad long term strategy.

-Geoff
Click to expand...
I jumped ship in June and went to gm( skilled trades) much nicer atmosphere and being out of the production environment is nice, no mandatory overtime and all the bs that comes with it.
 
mikesfastss said:
I jumped ship in June and went to gm( skilled trades) much nicer atmosphere and being out of the production environment is nice, no mandatory overtime and all the bs that comes with it.
Click to expand...

Welcome aboard! That 10 speed will be around for a while at least.

-Geoff
 
Killjoy said:
I bleed GM blue. I'm happy 2021 was a good year for them financially. I don't currently work for the Big 3 or automotive, but previously have, and while I'm happy to see the industry had a good year - really wished leadership would take a minute and think about the optics & practicality of this. Last year was dominated by daily news headlines on the chip shortage and supply chain issues limiting production, you had dealer lots sitting mostly empty with no new cars to sell, OEMs de-contenting vehicles to keep production running, and dealers imposing ridiculous 'market adjustment' markups. All signs of a struggling industry/business year, yet, now GM is awarding a 200% Team GM achievement? I don't get it...

I have family that works there and I'm happy for them and the financial betterment of my family. The immediate gratification is great. However, I'd be lying if I said I'm not shaking my head in disbelief... and didn't have concerns on the optics and PR side of this. This is the same company that had to temporarily reduce their employee's salaries by 20% to survive 2020/COVID? The same company that needed a bridge loan in 2009 to survive the great recession? Just seems like GM could have made the white collar workers happy with a solid 100-140% number, and invested the remainder in their rainy day fund, or advancing their EV program so that Tesla and Chinese EV invasion doesn't eat their lunch in a few years.

I don't know - maybe GM felt they needed to do this to keep top talent from fleeing to sexy EV startups like Tesla, Rivian or even the Chinese? 200% just seems off and I'm fairly confident this is going to come back and bite them at some point in the near future. That's the highest payout in over 20, 25, 30 years?

Again, happy for them in the moment. Just think it may be a bit short sighted.
Click to expand...

The funny thing was that people were making fun of GM for building trucks and putting them in fields! Not so funny now! That shit worked!

Also want to say that I have been at GM 23 years, and this current version of GM is the BEST I have ever seen it! And I have seen a big chunk of GM's history fist hand (almost 25%)! I remember Wagoner taking over as CEO right after I started in 2000, and drawing all these balloons around a GM balloon for GMAC, Hughes, GMAC Insurance, and a couple I can't remember - talking about those halo businesses being the future of GM. All I could think was "What about the cars!". Six months later he hired Bob Lutz, but yea, he drove GM into the ground even with Lutz.

But GM is successful now. No reason to be down on it. 2025 is going to be INSANE when the promised 25 EV models finish rolling out. I can't wait!

-Geoff
 
My daughter has worked at GM as an Engineer for 5 or 6 years now - Started at the Tech Center, but moved to Hamtramck for a leadership role. Her husband just started at the Tech center a couple of weeks ago in the R&D department - Robot programming and engineering...
 
WhiteHawk said:
Also want to say that I have been at GM 23 years, and this current version of GM is the BEST I have ever seen it!
Click to expand...

As a consumer and 22 year customer of GM, this is the worse I've ever seen it. I've had minor issues with my other GM vehicles previously, but my Silverado and my Equinox are both cheap piles of dog shit.
 
jsxtreme said:
As a consumer and 22 year customer of GM, this is the worse I've ever seen it. I've had minor issues with my other GM vehicles previously, but my Silverado and my Equinox are both cheap piles of dog shit.
Click to expand...

And that is why you never post where you work on social media!

Justin, I know we have had our personal differences, but I always take it to heart when I see real world complaints. There is very little I can do for on these type of issues, but if you think there is, PM me and I will see if I can help. My personal experience is the exact opposite of yours - those two vehicles are some of GM's best products, both in the marketplace and in quality. In fact, I have leased a Silverado every few years since 1998, and I have personally seen the improvements made on this vehicle for the past 25 years. So I am sorry you are having issues.

-Geoff
 
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