Pwraddr
Forum Member
Interesting.....what makes a dealership different than other places or parking lots or road ways....not being a dick, really curious.
Can an employer charge an employee for damages.
- Thread starter RICE EATER
- Start date
79cobra
Club Member
This is EXACTLY how I see it. Keep in mind that in a shop in most cases you are moving cars extremely slow. At these speeds how can you really get in an accident that wasnt avoidable?
2492harrison
Banned
boy am I glad I don't work in collision or for a dealer anymore. I had a spotless driving record when i worked in the field but I would have not paid for shit if I would have had an accident
braxx
Club Member
If you think it is just as hard to move cars around a dealership at 5mph as it is navigating public roadways then you shouldn't be on the same roads as me.
Accidents happen but I bet 95% of the type were talking about are avoidable. It's the avoidable ones that the person responsible for should be held accountable on.
I watched a porter run the automatic car wash on a convertable while the top was down. Do you think that porter should of been responsible to pay towards the damage?
I saw another porter stop under the automatic door. The door came down on the roof and as it was going on the porter tried to drive away causing more damage. Who the hell stops in the middle of a door way under a giant overhead door and sits there?
We have insurance for certain situation, but techs have paid for repairs.
1BadSn95
Club Member
OMG this thread is annoying. Why do you people think a company should eat costs of other peoples mistakes? Do you think they have a money tree out back or they can just shit 100 bills? A business is out to make money and turn a profit. I dont understand the way of thinking some of you have and I suppose you guys wouldnt understand till YOUR the owner of the company and your paying for other peoples mistakes.
How about when theres one of these so called "accidents" they take the money out of all the other employees checks to cover the cost? Sounds fair.
How about when theres one of these so called "accidents" they take the money out of all the other employees checks to cover the cost? Sounds fair.
Swifster
Forum Member
I will say that I worked at 3 GM dealers in MI and one in FL. I never saw that wording when signing my employment contract. I don't know if I would have hired on if I did. You can't control other drivers on the roads. As a service writer or body shop estimator, is was necessary to take cars on test drives. Thankfully, I've never wrecked a care in my care. One issue I could have a problem with if I sold cars is that you can be required to drive a demo. If someone ran a red light and broad sided me, I'd have issues paying $2500 out of my pocket.
RICE EATER
Forum Member
i always find it intersting to hear the diff points of view from an employee and a employer or business owner total polar opposite's.
i was trying to stay netural just to try to find out the actual law..but hearing what other companys and or senero's is intersting also.i guess it might be alil easyer if i give alil background on what im trying accomplish. Im the general manager of a trucking company of about 30 trucks/employees. in the 46 years we have been in the business we have never had a employee handbook mainly because we have always prefferd to take problems on a case by case basis, for both to give us the flexablity to protect and keep an employee they we may have had to fire because of a rule, or to give a problem child the ol brum out the door.
i like to belive we run a pretty tight ship and have had VERY few accidents or claims. any business owner will understand as we pay over $80,000 a year for insurance im also NOT going to make a claim unless i have to, as a couple of minnor claims may not sound like much or a big deal to an employee but will make a huge diff in the cost of insurance... some may say its just the cost of doing business..but the small stuff adds up and can kill a company fast if.
i do however understand accidents happy that are unavoidable and i wouldnt ever try to pin a driver down for that and make him pay anything..but over the last few months ive had a few drivers have small avoidable accidents.
a couple examples..one driver normally pulls a 45ft trailer..but hooked up to a 53ft for the trip..during the trip being the trailer was longer it obviously needs to take a wider turn..he didnt out of habbit and clipped the brick enterence and blew a tire and bent the rim.only a couple hundred dollars to fix but was totaly avoidable with paying attention.
another driver while pulling in to one of the stops on the route. clipped the hood and took a couple inch gouge out of the hood..not sure how yet just happened..but probly 3k to replace the hood..but im sure we can just fiberglass it and throw some paint on it for a couple hundred bucks. but again totaly avoidable
another driver while backing up bumped a parked f250 just cracking the grill, headlight and small dent on the hood fender. but about $2500 again totaly avoidable with paying attention.
im NOT tryin to bend anyone over and its really about the point more then the money..that i want my guys to be safe and take there time and if they think its close just get out and look. its just that simple in my mind..hitting a deer or something like that is not the issue here..and in my mind i belive the guys should have to pay for the parts..i dont plan on charging anyone labor even tho i could but again the money isnt the point but does matter.
i was trying to stay netural just to try to find out the actual law..but hearing what other companys and or senero's is intersting also.i guess it might be alil easyer if i give alil background on what im trying accomplish. Im the general manager of a trucking company of about 30 trucks/employees. in the 46 years we have been in the business we have never had a employee handbook mainly because we have always prefferd to take problems on a case by case basis, for both to give us the flexablity to protect and keep an employee they we may have had to fire because of a rule, or to give a problem child the ol brum out the door.
i like to belive we run a pretty tight ship and have had VERY few accidents or claims. any business owner will understand as we pay over $80,000 a year for insurance im also NOT going to make a claim unless i have to, as a couple of minnor claims may not sound like much or a big deal to an employee but will make a huge diff in the cost of insurance... some may say its just the cost of doing business..but the small stuff adds up and can kill a company fast if.
i do however understand accidents happy that are unavoidable and i wouldnt ever try to pin a driver down for that and make him pay anything..but over the last few months ive had a few drivers have small avoidable accidents.
a couple examples..one driver normally pulls a 45ft trailer..but hooked up to a 53ft for the trip..during the trip being the trailer was longer it obviously needs to take a wider turn..he didnt out of habbit and clipped the brick enterence and blew a tire and bent the rim.only a couple hundred dollars to fix but was totaly avoidable with paying attention.
another driver while pulling in to one of the stops on the route. clipped the hood and took a couple inch gouge out of the hood..not sure how yet just happened..but probly 3k to replace the hood..but im sure we can just fiberglass it and throw some paint on it for a couple hundred bucks. but again totaly avoidable
another driver while backing up bumped a parked f250 just cracking the grill, headlight and small dent on the hood fender. but about $2500 again totaly avoidable with paying attention.
im NOT tryin to bend anyone over and its really about the point more then the money..that i want my guys to be safe and take there time and if they think its close just get out and look. its just that simple in my mind..hitting a deer or something like that is not the issue here..and in my mind i belive the guys should have to pay for the parts..i dont plan on charging anyone labor even tho i could but again the money isnt the point but does matter.
RICE EATER
Forum Member
on a side note..in the past i did have a driver that hit a trailer again in a parking lot and took out the hood which was about 3k.. i did not make him pay for it, but did give him a week of unpaid vacation..lol but the problem with this is..each driver has a route another driver would have to cover the route so it makes it very hard to do this type of reprimand.
LITTLEMAGS
Club Member
I have a demo and if I get into a wreak in my demo I pay 1000.00 no matter what. My fault or not. I signed a letter too when I started working at my dealer.
wikdsvt
Club Member
There is SO MUCH bad advice/ interpretation of law in this thread I do not know where to begin.
FEDERAL EMPLOYMENT LAW dictates what can be deducted from a paycheck.
You cannot deduct from a paycheck damages!
Even if it is contractual. file a lawsuit, get a judgment, then garnish their paycheck.
FEDERAL EMPLOYMENT LAW dictates what can be deducted from a paycheck.
You cannot deduct from a paycheck damages!
Even if it is contractual. file a lawsuit, get a judgment, then garnish their paycheck.
mayhem
Club Member
There are very tricky laws regarding this subject. While on "company time" (on the clock, whatever) the company is legally responsable for that employees actions - GENERALLY speaking. Things like breaking laws will over-ride that.
What alot of people dont know is if you are "on the clock", many times your own car insurance will not cover your own car. Meaning, if you are using it for company business. Even something as simple as giving a customer a lift home, or running to get a part.
Of course most larger companies have some rules and regulations regarding this subject, mainly protecting themselves. Accidents do happen......BUT......people are put in situations that increase the probability of these things to happen. This is where the employer would be somewhat responsable. For instance: as a techician, people are required to operate vehicles that are "broken" and could fail to respond to the driver. Whos fault does it become if a tech bumps another car while pulling in a vehicle with failed brakes? The Tech or the employer for making them drive it?
What alot of people dont know is if you are "on the clock", many times your own car insurance will not cover your own car. Meaning, if you are using it for company business. Even something as simple as giving a customer a lift home, or running to get a part.
Of course most larger companies have some rules and regulations regarding this subject, mainly protecting themselves. Accidents do happen......BUT......people are put in situations that increase the probability of these things to happen. This is where the employer would be somewhat responsable. For instance: as a techician, people are required to operate vehicles that are "broken" and could fail to respond to the driver. Whos fault does it become if a tech bumps another car while pulling in a vehicle with failed brakes? The Tech or the employer for making them drive it?
This thread has me very curious because both accidents I have been in have been in company cars. In neither case did either employer even discuss paying any of my own money. One accident was more my fault and I was ticketed (even the cop thought the other driver's inattention was a major contributor but not the cause). That one caused very minor damage to the company vehicle and minor damage to the other persons car. If we weren't a no fault state or if the damage to the company vehicle had been more than the $50-100 it was, I wonder what would have happened? It would have been hard to argue if they had asked me to pay but I they pressed me into service doing something that was outside company policy to begin with not to mention against union rules (ie I was not union but doing union work).
The second scenario is the one I really wonder how you guys would handle. I was driving a company self insured pool vehicle and in a 6 car accident on I-96. I was car #5 and was 0% at fault. The company car was totaled and I had a fractured leg. I paid nothing for either. Nothing toward the car, nothing toward my medical expenses. Most of the discussion in this thread was around the employee being at fault. What is the take of these companies when the employee is NOT at fault? Do they still expect the employee to pay?
The second scenario is the one I really wonder how you guys would handle. I was driving a company self insured pool vehicle and in a 6 car accident on I-96. I was car #5 and was 0% at fault. The company car was totaled and I had a fractured leg. I paid nothing for either. Nothing toward the car, nothing toward my medical expenses. Most of the discussion in this thread was around the employee being at fault. What is the take of these companies when the employee is NOT at fault? Do they still expect the employee to pay?
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RICE EATER
Forum Member
ive done alil reading of the law now..and it still seems alil grey to me still but my take on the law ive read states that as an employer i can ASK for the employee to pay for damages and IF he agrees to pay then i can do a payroll deduct..but i can not just do a payroll deduct. and can fire if he refuses to pay for the damages.
as for your senerino 2..as a general manager if there's a true accident like that i would NOT as for the employee to pay anything and would either pay for his medical bills or he could file a workers comp claim if it was something major. something bigger like that would be were insurance would probly come in to play.
my issues is were my drivers hit a stationary object or park car etc something that was careless or not paying attention.
dave89iroc
Club Member
one question, doers signing the handbook constitute agreeing to pay damages?............
Quick86
"New Thread" & "Post Reply" button abuser
Deductions from Wages
An employee must consent in writing each time an employer makes a deduction from his
or her wages if the deduction is for the benefit of the employer. These type of deductions
include:
- cash shortages
- breakage, damage, or loss of the employer's property
- required uniforms
- required tools
- other items necessary for employment
Although an employer can deduct the above-listed item with the written consent of an
employee, the employer cannot coerce or threaten the employee with discharge to obtain
the written consent.
An employer cannot withhold or deduct wages from an employees pay check, unless:
- required or permitted to do so by law,
- required or permitted by a collective bargaining agreement, or
- the employee has consented in writing, without coercion, to the deduction.
Under the federal Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), a deduction for loss or damage may be made if two conditions are met:
The employee signed a written agreement prior to the shortage (at the start of employment or when the policy related to deductions is adopted) by which he or she agrees to such a deduction; and
The deduction does not bring the employee's hourly rate below the minimum wage.
What deductions from my paycheck are considered legal?
Agency: Licensing and Regulatory Affairs
Any deduction required by law (i.e. taxes, friend of the court payments) and union dues. All other deductions require the employer to get your signed authorization before the deduction is made. The employer is required to itemize deductions on your pay stub.
http://www.michigan.gov/lara/0,4601,7-154-27673_32352-41944--,00.html
An employee must consent in writing each time an employer makes a deduction from his
or her wages if the deduction is for the benefit of the employer. These type of deductions
include:
- cash shortages
- breakage, damage, or loss of the employer's property
- required uniforms
- required tools
- other items necessary for employment
Although an employer can deduct the above-listed item with the written consent of an
employee, the employer cannot coerce or threaten the employee with discharge to obtain
the written consent.
An employer cannot withhold or deduct wages from an employees pay check, unless:
- required or permitted to do so by law,
- required or permitted by a collective bargaining agreement, or
- the employee has consented in writing, without coercion, to the deduction.
Under the federal Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), a deduction for loss or damage may be made if two conditions are met:
The employee signed a written agreement prior to the shortage (at the start of employment or when the policy related to deductions is adopted) by which he or she agrees to such a deduction; and
The deduction does not bring the employee's hourly rate below the minimum wage.
What deductions from my paycheck are considered legal?
Agency: Licensing and Regulatory Affairs
Any deduction required by law (i.e. taxes, friend of the court payments) and union dues. All other deductions require the employer to get your signed authorization before the deduction is made. The employer is required to itemize deductions on your pay stub.
http://www.michigan.gov/lara/0,4601,7-154-27673_32352-41944--,00.html