2018 Lions Football thread

WhiteHawk said:
I kind of agree with this, but I don't like the alternative to just throwing out Stafford. When is the last time we had a good QB? I think you stick with the devil you know. Stafford has done pretty well the last few years (not including this year) considering he had zero run game supporting him. Getting even an average QB is like playing the lottery. I will take the average we have, and hope we get a management team that can build a team around him. You don't have to have a great QB to win the Super Bowl, but it sure helps.

Part of the problem is that every QB who plays the Lions looks like Joe Montana, so it is tough to get a frame of reference.

-Geoff
Click to expand...

This logic has no place in Justin’s world. I’ve spelled this out for him a dozen times. Stafford is the best QB the Lions have ever had by miles... I’ve gone as far as to point out the OVERALL abysmal success rate of 1st-3rd round QB draft picks... How approximately 80% of them wash out in a few years... (I mean, like I’ve literally typed every single one of them out and shown how little they have amounted to).

I’ve also asked Justin to provide a better alternative to Stafford who is realistically available. He ignores the constraints of reality and offers no constructive solutions. Just bitches.

My point has never been that Matthew Stafford is the best QB in the league... despite Justin “Trump-spinning” it to fit his narrative. My point has always been that Matthew Stafford is the best quarterback available to the Lions.


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Here... I copied it from last year’s thread so you can read it again. Tell me again how easy it is to draft a top twice QB.


Here's a list of every QB taken in the past 10-12 years in the first or second round...

Eli Manning
Philip Rivers
Ben Roethlisberger
JP Losman
Alex Smith
Aaron Rodgers
Jason Campbell
Vince Young
Matt Leinert
Jay Cutler
Kellen Clemens
Tavaris Jackson
JaMarcus Russell
Brady Quinn
Kevin Kolb
John Beck
Drew Stanton
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Brian Brohm
Chad Henne
Mark Sanchez
Josh Freeman
Pat White
Sam Bradford
Tim Tebow
Jimmy Clausen
Cam Newton
Jake Locker
Blaine Gabbert
Christian Ponder
Andy Dalton
Colin Kaepernick
Andrew Luck
Robert Griffin
Ryan Tannehill
Brandon Weedon
Brock Osweiler
EJ Manuel
Geno Smith
Blake Bortles
Johnny Manziel
Teddy Bridgewater
Derek Carr
Jimmy Garoppolo
Jameis Winston
Marcus Mariotta
Jarod Goff
Carson Wentz

Over 50% of them are COMPLETE busts... a few of them are average or yet to be determined. A few are comparable to Stafford and only ONE is clearly better than Stafford, and that's Ben Roethlisberger.

Do you get the point here? LOOK AT ALL OF THOSE FAILURES, picked by people who know a shitload more about football than you or I... and you'd rather gamble away a guy who's well on his way to HALL OF FAME numbers (please feel free to compare them and try to dispute this) for a total crapshoot. LOL. You crazy

Edit: it was from the 2016 thread and I’ll amend my comments to say that maybe a few others Is put over Stafford at this point like Rodgers and Goff... possibly Wentz, but he hasn’t been lighting it up lately either. Look at that list.... how many of those guys are completely gone from the league? Played a year or two, never started, never won a playoff game, etc...

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Jimmy Johnson was rating QB's a few years ago, and he put Stafford in the second tier. I put a lot of stock in what he says, he knows football. But yea, Stafford has not been playing as well this year. Maybe it is the kids? A lot of items guys slump when they get their long term deal too. I think he needs to get called out. Not sure who is going to do it, but that loss yesterday was squarely on him as far as I was concerned. Definitely not giving up on him though.

-Geoff
 
DetroitStyle said:
Here... I copied it from last year’s thread so you can read it again. Tell me again how easy it is to draft a top twice QB.


Here's a list of every QB taken in the past 10-12 years in the first or second round...

Eli Manning
Philip Rivers
Ben Roethlisberger
JP Losman
Alex Smith
Aaron Rodgers
Jason Campbell
Vince Young
Matt Leinert
Jay Cutler
Kellen Clemens
Tavaris Jackson
JaMarcus Russell
Brady Quinn
Kevin Kolb
John Beck
Drew Stanton
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Brian Brohm
Chad Henne
Mark Sanchez
Josh Freeman
Pat White
Sam Bradford
Tim Tebow
Jimmy Clausen
Cam Newton
Jake Locker
Blaine Gabbert
Christian Ponder
Andy Dalton
Colin Kaepernick
Andrew Luck
Robert Griffin
Ryan Tannehill
Brandon Weedon
Brock Osweiler
EJ Manuel
Geno Smith
Blake Bortles
Johnny Manziel
Teddy Bridgewater
Derek Carr
Jimmy Garoppolo
Jameis Winston
Marcus Mariotta
Jarod Goff
Carson Wentz

Over 50% of them are COMPLETE busts... a few of them are average or yet to be determined. A few are comparable to Stafford and only ONE is clearly better than Stafford, and that's Ben Roethlisberger.

Do you get the point here? LOOK AT ALL OF THOSE FAILURES, picked by people who know a shitload more about football than you or I... and you'd rather gamble away a guy who's well on his way to HALL OF FAME numbers (please feel free to compare them and try to dispute this) for a total crapshoot. LOL. You crazy

Edit: it was from the 2016 thread and I’ll amend my comments to say that maybe a few others Is put over Stafford at this point like Rodgers and Goff... possibly Wentz, but he hasn’t been lighting it up lately either. Look at that list.... how many of those guys are completely gone from the league? Played a year or two, never started, never won a playoff game, etc...

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Click to expand...

Oh man! 50%?! LMFAO :roll: Oh well if there's only a 50% chance the Lions could improve the position then we should definitely just keep under achieving and insure that we don't win anything for another ten years.

What's even funnier, how many of those busts have won a playoff game? So what does that say about Stafford?

Mike, please list below everything Stafford has won in his tenure here in Detroit. I'll wait!
 
Oh you should have added the undrafted Case Keenum who went 13-3 with the Vikings, won a NFC North title, and won a playoff game.
 
jsxtreme said:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...-detroit-lions-to-give-up-on-matthew-stafford
Click to expand...

“Stafford isn't the team's sole problem, but he is a problem when he should be masking problems elsewhere, and that's the problem.

He's supposed to be in his prime. This is his 10th season, and it almost certainly will be his 10th without a playoff win. He's taken the Lions to the postseason just three times during his decade in the Motor City.

It might be time to move on and start fresh at the game's most important position—especially if that means saving $28.5 million a year, which according to Spotrac is Stafford's average cap hit over the next four seasons.”
 
DetroitStyle said:
Here... I copied it from last year’s thread so you can read it again. Tell me again how easy it is to draft a top twice QB.


Here's a list of every QB taken in the past 10-12 years in the first or second round...

Eli Manning
Philip Rivers
Ben Roethlisberger
JP Losman
Alex Smith
Aaron Rodgers
Jason Campbell
Vince Young
Matt Leinert
Jay Cutler
Kellen Clemens
Tavaris Jackson
JaMarcus Russell
Brady Quinn
Kevin Kolb
John Beck
Drew Stanton
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Brian Brohm
Chad Henne
Mark Sanchez
Josh Freeman
Pat White
Sam Bradford
Tim Tebow
Jimmy Clausen
Cam Newton
Jake Locker
Blaine Gabbert
Christian Ponder
Andy Dalton
Colin Kaepernick
Andrew Luck
Robert Griffin
Ryan Tannehill
Brandon Weedon
Brock Osweiler
EJ Manuel
Geno Smith
Blake Bortles
Johnny Manziel
Teddy Bridgewater
Derek Carr
Jimmy Garoppolo
Jameis Winston
Marcus Mariotta
Jarod Goff
Carson Wentz

Over 50% of them are COMPLETE busts... a few of them are average or yet to be determined. A few are comparable to Stafford and only ONE is clearly better than Stafford, and that's Ben Roethlisberger.

Do you get the point here? LOOK AT ALL OF THOSE FAILURES, picked by people who know a shitload more about football than you or I... and you'd rather gamble away a guy who's well on his way to HALL OF FAME numbers (please feel free to compare them and try to dispute this) for a total crapshoot. LOL. You crazy

Edit: it was from the 2016 thread and I’ll amend my comments to say that maybe a few others Is put over Stafford at this point like Rodgers and Goff... possibly Wentz, but he hasn’t been lighting it up lately either. Look at that list.... how many of those guys are completely gone from the league? Played a year or two, never started, never won a playoff game, etc...

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Click to expand...

:lol:

You'd only put Rothlisberger over Statfod? And maybe Rodgers and Goff? :lol:
Rivers is easily better. Eli Manning has two rings. Matt Ryan, Colin Kaeepernick, and Cam Newton have been to superbowls. Joe Flacco Has won a superbowl.
Andrew Luck has actually won playoff games, even with an anemic running game like Stafford.


You know what Stat Padford is? He's Jay Cutler/Tony Romo.
 
cASe SenSiTive said:
:lol:

You'd only put Rothlisberger over Statfod? And maybe Rodgers and Goff? :lol:
Rivers is easily better. Eli Manning has two rings. Matt Ryan, Colin Kaeepernick, and Cam Newton have been to superbowls. Joe Flacco Has won a superbowl.
Andrew Luck has actually won playoff games, even with an anemic running game like Stafford.


You know what Stat Padford is? He's Jay Cutler/Tony Romo.
Click to expand...


Rivers is “easily” better? I’m not saying he’s not a reasonable point of discussion, but Rivers has had Hall of Fame run support for his entire career... you know, a guy named LaDainian Tomlinson for 10+ years? When you’ve got a guy who’s fifth all time in rushing yards in the backfield with you, it certainly changes the way the defense looks for the QB, no? Currently has Melvin Gordon who is good for 1000 yards a season...

And the whole “has won a SuperBowl” line is nonsense when it comes to evaluating a QB. You know who else has won a SuperBowl? Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, etc etc... winning big games is a part of it, but using it to elevate somebody over a clearly better player is silly.

Derrick Fisher has six NBA rings. Is he better than Lebron? Is he better than than Allen Iverson who never won any?




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DetroitStyle said:
Rivers is “easily” better? I’m not saying he’s not a reasonable point of discussion, but Rivers has had Hall of Fame run support for his entire career... you know, a guy named LaDainian Tomlinson for 10+ years? When you’ve got a guy who’s fifth all time in rushing yards in the backfield with you, it certainly changes the way the defense looks for the QB, no? Currently has Melvin Gordon who is good for 1000 yards a season...
Click to expand...

OK, but Rivers stats are exceptionally good even considering the benefit of great running backs. He has hall of fame level #s.
And Rothlisberger, who you said is better, has also had great running backs too.

And the whole “has won a SuperBowl” line is nonsense when it comes to evaluating a QB. You know who else has won a SuperBowl? Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, etc etc... winning big games is a part of it, but using it to elevate somebody over a clearly better player is silly.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying just winning a SB makes them better. I'm saying that guys with similar passing stats are elevated by actually having real team success. Matt Ryan and Stafford are very similar players, but Ryan has actually won meaningful games. Eli was a SB MVP, he wasnt just along for the ride like Dilfer or Johnson.


I notice you didn't address Luck, who has had a similar lack or running game his entire career, but has managed to win multiple playoff games and put up personal stats at least as good/better as Stafford.
 
Bottom line is you have to blame the owners on why they suck...
Wtf do they care... stadiums PACKED every game!
 
cASe SenSiTive said:
OK, but Rivers stats are exceptionally good even considering the benefit of great running backs. He has hall of fame level #s.
And Rothlisberger, who you said is better, has also had great running backs too.



I'm not saying just winning a SB makes them better. I'm saying that guys with similar passing stats are elevated by actually having real team success. Matt Ryan and Stafford are very similar players, but Ryan has actually won meaningful games. Eli was a SB MVP, he wasnt just along for the ride like Dilfer or Johnson.


I notice you didn't address Luck, who has had a similar lack or running game his entire career, but has managed to win multiple playoff games and put up personal stats at least as good/better as Stafford.
Click to expand...

You’re still missing the point... so, even including Luck, you’ve got what... five or six guys who you would say are better than Stafford? Out of how many... fifty? Does that make “draft a better QB” a sensible option, blow a first round draft pick on somebody that has a 90% chance of being well below the current guy? Or does it make more sense to draft guys to build around the already solid guy you already have?


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DetroitStyle said:
You’re still missing the point... so, even including Luck, you’ve got what... five or six guys who you would say are better than Stafford? Out of how many... fifty? Does that make “draft a better QB” a sensible option, blow a first round draft pick on somebody that has a 90% chance of being well below the current guy? Or does it make more sense to draft guys to build around the already solid guy you already have?


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Click to expand...

Maybe they can get him a decent tight end. He's been throwing to trash all these years.

Like that Ebron guy who only has 12 TDs for the Colts this season. :lol:
 
cASe SenSiTive said:
Maybe they can get him a decent tight end. He's been throwing to trash all these years.

Like that Ebron guy who only has 12 TDs for the Colts this season. :lol:
Click to expand...

Dude, come on... that’s as much a mystery to me as it is everybody else with a pair of eyes in this city. We all saw the drops. Maybe that dude just didn’t want to be here? Maybe he had a moment of clarity and refocused himself... who the hell knows, but Ebron sucked ass when he was here and that has nothing to do with anything other than Eric Ebron.


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I think there is a cultural issue there. It seems like a lot of the players spend a lot of time celebrating their personal successful plays even when the Lions are getting killed. You know, if we are down by 21, and you make a tackle that is still a 2-yard gain for the team we are playing, maybe you shouldn't do a touchdown dance? I don't know. What do I know, though, I have never been to a super bowl either.

-Geoff
 
Caldwell watching this lions season.....

5050e92df6c699a3815dec9825748073.jpg
 
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