2011 College Football Megathread

[moneypit]

All traditional programs are like this. Just watch when Penn State replaces Paterno. An outsider doesn't have a chance in Hell of getting the job. The atmosphere doesn't change until the Good 'ole Boy network finally sinks the ship. This happened at Alabama and Nebraska. Hopefully Hoke works out for Michigan, but judging from afar, Carr has too much say.

 

[jsxtreme]

All traditional programs are like this. Just watch when Penn State replaces Paterno. An outsider doesn't have a chance in Hell of getting the job. The atmosphere doesn't change until the Good 'ole Boy network finally sinks the ship. This happened at Alabama and Nebraska. Hopefully Hoke works out for Michigan, but judging from afar, Carr has too much say.

Carr needs to and should have a say. He didn't have much of one the past 3 years and look what happened.

 

[CRASH]

Carr needs to and should have a say. He didn't have much of one the past 3 years and look what happened.

He got shoved out the door and forgotten, so if he comes back it should be on his terms. I think the whole situation was shitty with how he was treated.

 

[Stalker]

I'm still sorting through this. While I am a firm believer that Brandon fucked this up bad, I think Hoke may be what we need. I don't have an opinion at the moment on whether he can/will return us to glory, but I think he will settle down the team and get it back to functioning the way it should.

 

[jdustu]

Carr needs to and should have a say. He didn't have much of one the past 3 years and look what happened.

Partly because his side sabotaged any chance of success RR had. You can't run a successful program when insiders are actively working against you.

 

[Stalker]

Justin won't believe anything you say disparaging carr. It doesn't matter, but in the end, RR is gone. Whether he got a chance or not is a moot point. According to Justin and Mike, RR walked in to a top class recruitment, had every opportunity to get everything done right, and failed because of his own faults as a coach.

 

[Marc@AutoLavish]

Justin won't believe anything you say disparaging carr. It doesn't matter, but in the end, RR is gone. Whether he got a chance or not is a moot point. According to Justin and Mike, RR walked in to a top class recruitment, had every opportunity to get everything done right, and failed because of his own faults as a coach.

Going from one extreme to the other doesn't work. As proof, I offer this:

Regardless of what was working for or against RR, he lost to Toledo. The last Michigan coach to lose to such a team was Carr, and it cost him his job. I think we can agree on that: it wasn't Carr's loss to a good Oregon team or a good Ohio State team, it was his loss to a team that by no means should UofM ever lose to. I have a lot of respect for App St as they're a better team than many D1 schools, but at the end of the day, that doesn't matter.
RR lost to Toledo, who's only other wins were against Eastern Michigan (worst team in the country), and Miami of Ohio (their only win was against Charleston Southern). Toledo beat Michigan, and STILL fired their coach at the end of the season. That's how bad Michigan was under RR

If you think RR didn't get the things he needed, or should have been afforded more opportunities that's fine. It's a debate that will continue. Just remember that a guy who won a national title lost his job much quicker while performing much better than RR at the same school a few years earlier.

 

[moneypit]

G
R. Just remember that a guy who won a national title lost his job much quicker while performing much better than RR at the same school a few years earlier.

ahem 1/2 a national title

 

[Stalker]

The fact that Carr lost to toledo wasn't what drove him out. He'd lost to worse teams years before (Notre Dame when they were ranked 40 something and UM was in the top 10). Carr was at retirements door. The season was a miserable failure and things didn't look good for the following year. I'm not saying this last season wasn't RR's own doing. I'm saying that for all intents and purposes, RR was given 2 years at best to turn a program around completely. It just doesn't happen that way.

 

[moneypit]

The fact that Carr lost to toledo wasn't what drove him out. He'd lost to worse teams years before (Notre Dame when they were ranked 40 something and UM was in the top 10). Carr was at retirements door. The season was a miserable failure and things didn't look good for the following year. I'm not saying this last season wasn't RR's own doing. I'm saying that for all intents and purposes, RR was given 2 years at best to turn a program around completely. It just doesn't happen that way.

Sabin did it
07 7-6
08- 12-2
09 14-0 NC

he did have a bigger checkbook though

 

[Marc@AutoLavish]

The fact that Carr lost to App St wasn't what drove him out. He'd lost to worse teams years before (Notre Dame when they were ranked 40 something and UM was in the top 10). Carr was at retirements door. The season was a miserable failure and things didn't look good for the following year. I'm not saying this last season wasn't RR's own doing. I'm saying that for all intents and purposes, RR was given 2 years at best to turn a program around completely. It just doesn't happen that way.

Losing in a rivalry game is never good, but there's more understanding to losing to a decent team like Notre Dame than App State or Toledo.

Turn around?!?!?! What turn around? Michigan finished their HORRIBLE year under Carr (and I mean it... they were preseason number 2) in the top 25. One poll had then at 18 and one at 19.

What exactly did RR have to turn around?

 

[Stalker]

Well for starters, he had to turn around the entire atmosphere surrounding him. That's before you even begin to look at what was left for him to work with. I don't think anyone (even Justin included) can say RR was given a fair opportunity in the first year. Hell, Hoke is getting the same faltered start. Though a big difference is that he has the full organization behind him, not trying to sabotage him.

 

[webleedorange619]

Well for starters, he had to turn around the entire atmosphere surrounding him. That's before you even begin to look at what was left for him to work with. I don't think anyone (even Justin included) can say RR was given a fair opportunity in the first year. Hell, Hoke is getting the same faltered start. Though a big difference is that he has the full organization behind him, not trying to sabotage him.

Tin foil hat on? Why do you think the program was against RR and trying to sabotage him?

 

[Stalker]

I blame Martin. The search was fubar'd from the beginning. Add to it, he was new and flashy which many didn't like. There's no conspiracy here. I think given another year and RR would have been in 9/10 win seasons. I don't fault Brandon for getting rid of him, but I do fault him for how he did the whole thing. Same thing martin did.

 

[webleedorange619]

I blame Martin. The search was fubar'd from the beginning. Add to it, he was new and flashy which many didn't like. There's no conspiracy here. I think given another year and RR would have been in 9/10 win seasons. I don't fault Brandon for getting rid of him, but I do fault him for how he did the whole thing. Same thing martin did.

I agree, and find the situation funny. RR would have worked out.....

 

[Marc@AutoLavish]

So you believe the 2008 Michigan football team finished 3-9 because there were some people trying to sabotage the season? Michigan set a team record for losses in a single year not because they started an undersized RB in Sam McGuffie rather than their best back (Brandon Minor), ran an offense they could not run (ok ok... they CAN do anything they want, but their results show me they couldn't. I was there for opening day and the Wisconsin game), and this was because former players didn't like RR?
The team's MVP that year was their Punter (I wish I was making this up).
Keeping with his own tradition, RR continued to start his second best RB (Smith) while his best one sat on the bench and watched (Shaw).
If you say it's OK for Toledo to beat UofM, you're saying that you believe Toledo has better players & recruits than Michigan. If you don't believe that is true, then that means that RR was out-coached by Toledo's coach... who lost his job.


If Hoke does worse than 7-6 his first year, I think he should be fired.

 

[Stalker]

I didn't say any of that. I said he was given two years to turn the program around. His first year was sabotaged by Martin. I believe that if Hoke does 1-10 this year, it's not his fault. Brandon screwed it up. THough he will have one thing going for him, he won't have half the fans pulling for him to fail so they could say "I told you so".

 

[mark468]

So you believe the 2008 Michigan football team finished 3-9 because there were some people trying to sabotage the season? Michigan set a team record for losses in a single year not because they started an undersized RB in Sam McGuffie rather than their best back (Brandon Minor), ran an offense they could not run (ok ok... they CAN do anything they want, but their results show me they couldn't. I was there for opening day and the Wisconsin game), and this was because former players didn't like RR?
The team's MVP that year was their Punter (I wish I was making this up).
Keeping with his own tradition, RR continued to start his second best RB (Smith) while his best one sat on the bench and watched (Shaw).
If you say it's OK for Toledo to beat UofM, you're saying that you believe Toledo has better players & recruits than Michigan. If you don't believe that is true, then that means that RR was out-coached by Toledo's coach... who lost his job.


If Hoke does worse than 7-6 his first year, I think he should be fired.

Look i dont like this hire at all but saying that ,i think your crazy, 7 wins would be a wonderful thing, he will be lucky to win 3-5, another system and he has a bunch of midgets to run his offense ,and ill be honest their is barely MAC type talent on this team,

 

[MxRacerCam]

why on earth would the "organization" be trying to sabotage it's brand new coach? thats beyond silly.

 

[Swifster]

While the defense sucks donkey balls, I don't think the real problem will be next year, and may not even be 2012. But at some point your current recruiting class (or lack there of) will cause a problem. I could see UM winning 5-7 games the next two years (unless shoelace walks) and then fall to a 3 to 5 win season because of this class. Say Hoke goes 6-6, 7-5 and then falls to 4-8 in 2013. Everyone will forget about the poor recruiting class and call for Hoke to be fired. Why? Because this is the Michigan way! And depending on how many walk from the program, that could be optimistic. I personally think Hoke was the right call, but I'm waiting for everyone to forget this is a building process and that a recruiting class effects a school 2-3 years down the road. All hail Hoke until the short term memory failure kicks in.