So long Raptor
- Thread starter DBK
- Start date
00sonolow
All Business
:lol:
a383z28
Forum Member
My parents live right by white sands missel range and that base that tests secrete planes and missels. My dad has told me some very intresting stories of things in the sky at night and no sound from them moving at a very high rate of speed, some really far up in the sky and some he said he saw a single green light and flew over his house and a slight rumble....:893Jedi:
89five.o
Forum Member
I lived on Holloman AFB for 4 years and in the area for about 9. White Sands does have some really neat stuff. The high speed test track, Trinity site, Transformers the movie sets and a bunch of other very secretive things are in and around White Sands.
Last edited:
Marc@AutoLavish
Club Sponsor
Well I guess 4 years of being an Infantry Paratrooper in the United States Army with trips to both Iraq and Afghanistan didn't teach me anything about "real wars" so I'm quite sorry.
Lets recap what's happened:
US spends billions and billions of dollars in the development and production of the F22 raptor. Billions and billions of dollars towards something NEVER USED for its designed purpose.
US spends billions and billions of dollars in the development and production of the F35 Lightning. The F35 will replace the F16 as it can be used on naval aircraft carriers, is also stealth like the F22, and can be used in many more ways than the F22.
US Secretary of Defense (the same one originally brought in by President Bush) wants to stop spending money on cold war technology that isn't BEING USED and allot more money towards actual ground troops: something proven to be vital to winning the conflict we're currently engaged in.
Your argument / lesson to me is the need for the F22 Raptor WHICH HAS NEVER BEEN USED IN COMBAT for air superiority at the beginning of a military conflict though we still have ICBMs, long range cruise missiles, the stealth B2, and the stealth F-35 in our arsenal?
Please teach the "fake war" vet more about military strategy please....
ASRoff
Club Member
Its an intercept aircraft. meaning it climbs at a high rate of speed to intercept invading aircraft. The same goes with ICBM's
ICBMs are a deturent.
Mutual assured destruction (MAD) is a doctrine of military strategy in which a full-scale use of nuclear weapons by two opposing sides would effectively result in the destruction of both the attacker and the defender. It is based on the theory of deterrence according to which the deployment of strong weapons is essential to threaten the enemy in order to prevent the use of the very same weapons. The strategy is effectively a form of Nash equilibrium, in which both sides are attempting to avoid their worst possible outcome—nuclear annihilation
If we do have to use the F-22 we have BIG problems. Because it exists other countrys dont even Think of trying that shit.
Dont get pissed about what I say next but, I have found that Ground pounders sometimes dont see the whole picture.
If we do use a F-22 we wont have time to have you guys jump anywhere. The enemy will be knocking on the door of the barraks.
I'm going to apologise in advance about my spelling I seem to be fat finger the keyboard today LOL
Last edited:
Marc@AutoLavish
Club Sponsor
ASRoff - no offense taken. I hope you understand that if anyone - it's the people on the ground that TRULY understand the value of air support / superiority.
I also understand the idea / concept / reason the F22 was built. There's no doubt that it's the best at what it does, it's far better than any attack plane ever made, and it's completely not necessary.
If our navy, ICBMs, F35s, and B2's don't stop a potential nuclear threat / fighter aircraft threat / enemy naval threat / etc, then the Raptor won't either. There's a time and place for one-up manship, and the mental affect it can cause is opposing forces. There's no one to one-up in this case.
There is a need for other Air Force assets, and if anything, the money freed up by cutting this program will better support them. The F22's main problem, if anything, is that is the victim of being too advanced for it's time period.
I also understand the idea / concept / reason the F22 was built. There's no doubt that it's the best at what it does, it's far better than any attack plane ever made, and it's completely not necessary.
If our navy, ICBMs, F35s, and B2's don't stop a potential nuclear threat / fighter aircraft threat / enemy naval threat / etc, then the Raptor won't either. There's a time and place for one-up manship, and the mental affect it can cause is opposing forces. There's no one to one-up in this case.
There is a need for other Air Force assets, and if anything, the money freed up by cutting this program will better support them. The F22's main problem, if anything, is that is the victim of being too advanced for it's time period.
ASRoff
Club Member
Like fluffier pillows? Ha Ha!!
I think its a combination of all the superior weapons we have that deters attack. The F-22 was just a piece.
Personally I'd like to see more personal armor for troops and proper troop transports.
my friend said the same thing..he did 2 tours in iraq, and was there when we took fallujah,,he was gunner..and he had to weld 1/2 steel plate around his head. he ketp telling his superiors about him being sniped at and nothing happend..well he welded those plates and they saved his life..he should of been killed a few times he was telling me..
anyway sorry to hijack,
i heard the other day that this wa being cut..i also heard that these planes cannot be flown in the rain, becasue the skin is so frail..
ASRoff
Club Member
Ha! that's a myth. I'm not sure how that one got started. but it is funny! Every time an aircraft fly's it encounters moisture.
CableGuy
Authentic Strummer
First, thank you for serving your country.
Second, you have no idea what your talking about :gr_confus so I won't even argue with you. ( Your comparing a F-22 to a ICBM a Stealth BOMBER, and a F-35 which is a nice jet but not even close to a F-22. Nuff said.)
Marc@AutoLavish
Club Sponsor
^ i appologize for not making my arguement more clear then.
First off, thanx for paying me! (you do pay your taxes right? :icon_lol: )
My point was that the F22 (because it's never been used for it's designed purpose) is a tool of deterrence, and with those other assets known of, available, and in use (ICBM/B2/F35/etc) - if they don't deter enemy action, the Raptor will not either.
I've already said and admitted that there's no doubt the F22 was the best as what it was made for. I think, in general, people know that to be true. My argument, like that of Secretary Gates, is that it is not needed, and the money would be likely better spent in other areas.
First off, thanx for paying me! (you do pay your taxes right? :icon_lol: )
My point was that the F22 (because it's never been used for it's designed purpose) is a tool of deterrence, and with those other assets known of, available, and in use (ICBM/B2/F35/etc) - if they don't deter enemy action, the Raptor will not either.
I've already said and admitted that there's no doubt the F22 was the best as what it was made for. I think, in general, people know that to be true. My argument, like that of Secretary Gates, is that it is not needed, and the money would be likely better spent in other areas.
Last edited:
DBK
Club Member
When you get to this point in the argument, this is where I'd say Secretary Gates should take everything he can get, then bitch at Congress for greenlight millions for Opera houses in Delaware and $118,000 stoplights in bumblefuck. It's gay we have to choose between F-22s and body armor, but we have no problem funding $50 million local airports that service 7 passengers per day.
Marc@AutoLavish
Club Sponsor
CableGuy
Authentic Strummer
Ahhh..
I see / under stand your point now. Agreed.
Agreed 110% on the body armor.... all of the "sliders" that Bam Bam said he would STOP, and never did, and actually slid a couple in him self are such a waste. Too bad we the people have no idea what 99% of those things are, and at the same time don't have $500 bucks for some good body armor to protect human life.
FWIW, I was in the service also.
I see / under stand your point now. Agreed.
Agreed 110% on the body armor.... all of the "sliders" that Bam Bam said he would STOP, and never did, and actually slid a couple in him self are such a waste. Too bad we the people have no idea what 99% of those things are, and at the same time don't have $500 bucks for some good body armor to protect human life.
FWIW, I was in the service also.
mutt grunt
i guess my question is through the use of majorly capable arsenal such as the Apache, predator, and a 10. do you honestly feel that a plane that is capable of going mach 1 on a horizontal plane... is needed in Iraq, i am happy we have more then just a few of these planes in our arsenal especially since north Korea shows no signs of talking.
you don't bring a lion to a dog fight.
thank you for serving, i have quite a i few close friends who have served as well and they never seemed to mention a lack of air support.
i guess my question is through the use of majorly capable arsenal such as the Apache, predator, and a 10. do you honestly feel that a plane that is capable of going mach 1 on a horizontal plane... is needed in Iraq, i am happy we have more then just a few of these planes in our arsenal especially since north Korea shows no signs of talking.
you don't bring a lion to a dog fight.
thank you for serving, i have quite a i few close friends who have served as well and they never seemed to mention a lack of air support.
Marc@AutoLavish
Club Sponsor
Of course I understand why we don't have more stealth planes in iraq/afghanistan. The need for fighter planes with a limited payload (as they hold their missiles/bombs inside the body for stealth) are simply not in demand.
I think we agree we'd rather have more than enough fighting power than not enough with crazies like N Korea and Iran around.
especially in Afghanistan there is a lack of air support. I've been stuck in "conflicts" in which we couldn't even get a UAV let alone a bird or fast mover. With iraq, most things are centralized in urban areas. In afghanistan, things are so spread out that unless you're SF/Ranger Bat/SEALs/etc, you'll only have dedicated CAS (close air support dedicated for your mission waiting on your call close by) a few times.
I think CableGuy and DBK have brought up very good points about federal funding and how so much is misspent. I can't help but to think of how some things would be without all the pork barrel spending that wastes away tax dollars.
FWIW, there were at least 40 votes against closing the F22. Oddly enough, it turns out parts of the plane are made in 42 different states.
I think we agree we'd rather have more than enough fighting power than not enough with crazies like N Korea and Iran around.
especially in Afghanistan there is a lack of air support. I've been stuck in "conflicts" in which we couldn't even get a UAV let alone a bird or fast mover. With iraq, most things are centralized in urban areas. In afghanistan, things are so spread out that unless you're SF/Ranger Bat/SEALs/etc, you'll only have dedicated CAS (close air support dedicated for your mission waiting on your call close by) a few times.
I think CableGuy and DBK have brought up very good points about federal funding and how so much is misspent. I can't help but to think of how some things would be without all the pork barrel spending that wastes away tax dollars.
FWIW, there were at least 40 votes against closing the F22. Oddly enough, it turns out parts of the plane are made in 42 different states.
ASRoff
Club Member
They are also killing the f136 program which directly affects my company and my division of the company. (GE aviation)
The sad thing about that is the Pratt engines are 30% over budget. Where as were right on target and "have better performance even though the engine is still in development phase" according to aviation weekly.
(I'm on the Commerical aircraft side of aviation engines)
thats what i thought lol..i was thinking, well if this plane goes supersonic, then theres a lot of moisture right there
boosted gt
Club Member
if this country is so worried about cost we should just buy some nice migs from russia.
stop sending goodamn aid $$ to other countries and spend the money on our own military. we might actually need it to defend the country against an enemy that actually has an air force one day
stop sending goodamn aid $$ to other countries and spend the money on our own military. we might actually need it to defend the country against an enemy that actually has an air force one day