Pittsburgh got whooped...

SVT32VDOHC said:
#13 > #87 Those goals and stick handling above prove it. Crosby hangs out in front of the net and puts in rebounds. Datsyuk makes plays, puck handles, steals, fakes people out, then scores. Crosby get goals off of other players rejections.
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Not really sure why I'm bothering but I'll try to have a serious conversation here...



There's no way you typed that with a straight face unless you just don't watch Crosby play. I don't care that people hate him, it's part of the game. But to honestly deny his talent? You can't be serious. Do you really need to see a goal chart showing where his goals come from, to show he's not exactly reliant on garbage goals as you seem to think he is? I'll find one. And if that alone were the simple formula for goal scoring, why has Holstrom only been able to hit 30 goals once? That's his specialty plus he hasn't got to spend time and effort with center responsibilities. That's like saying Ovechkin only relies on using defenders as screens for his shots. Sure he gets decent amounts of goals with that, but that's what makes him dangerous and good. I'm the furthest thing from an Ovie fan, but I'd be an idiot to refute this. Trouble lately is defenders have been stepping up and back-checking forwards have been shutting him down a lot more than the past and his goal scoring is suffering.

Regarding puck possession, you mustn't watch many Pens games to know what you're talking about. He's not a dangle magician like Datsyuk, no, but for actual puck possession he's easily one of the toughest to knock off the puck in the league. And now you're saying he's not a playmaker? It's like you're not even serious.

Here's some stats to show who might be better at what.

The only time Pasha has outscored Sid is when he played 29 more games. Every other season ol' "one-trick pony Sid" has somehow managed to get more goals and assists. But oh, I know. Datsyuk is more of a two-way player than an all-out offensive threat so it stands to reason that he won't score as much. OK, I buy that. Then why the argument that he's a better goal scorer? Based on WHAT? Not scoring goals, obviously. Playmaking as well. And when then is Crosby condemned for not being as good a 2-way player when that's not his main duty out on the ice? Because it's convenient and an easy way to put him down? Why not compare Lidstrom's fighting abilities to Deryk Engelland's while you're at it...

As promised, here are some numbers. One of 'em hit 70 points after 3 years in the league (I'm amazed that he went 87/87/97/97 in a row like that, though. Pretty cool). The other was never a sub-100 point scorer without having missed almost 1/3 of a season. One has 3 Selkes to his credit, a testament to his elite status as his 2-way/shutdown center role would suggest. The other has everything a scoring center could dream of: Hart, Art Ross, Rocket Richard, and even a Pearson. Take one of these guys off their team and they're still a playoff favorite. Take the other out and his team would be lucky to even reach the playoffs. I realize that's not a fair argument though since value-to-team doesn't equal overall talent. That's fair, it's invalid. But tell me again WHO is the better goal scorer & playmaker? Or were all of those flukes? And what will be the response (besides "fuck Crosby", of coures) if he continues to lead the league as he has all year to win another Art Ross and Rocket Richard, and likely a Pearson or Hart or both?

2005–06 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 81 39 63 102
2006–07 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 79 36 84 120
2007–08 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 53 24 48 72
2008–09 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 77 33 70 103
2009–10 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 81 51 58 109
NHL totals..........................................371 183 323 506

2001–02 Detroit Red Wings NHL 70 11 24 35
2002–03 Detroit Red Wings NHL 64 12 39 51
2003–04 Detroit Red Wings NHL 75 30 38 68
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2005–06 Detroit Red Wings NHL 75 28 59 87
2006–07 Detroit Red Wings NHL 79 27 60 87
2007–08 Detroit Red Wings NHL 82 31 66 97
2008–09 Detroit Red Wings NHL 81 32 65 97
2009–10 Detroit Red Wings NHL 80 27 43 70
NHL totals..................................606 198 394 592

No doubt Datsyuk is an amazing puckhandler and makes defenders look stupid. He makes great highlight reel plays, that's for sure. Haven't seen it made to look that easy since Mario, honestly. A few were close, but he makes it look so effortless, he truly does. Does that translate to numbers? Not yet... Now here's Sid's weak puck possession, making Jason Spezza look like a Mike Grier. Remember you were talking puck possession so there's no need for this vs. that and which has better stickhandling tricks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3HeW3clisM @ 33 seconds
 
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I was responding to your comment about his puck possession apparently being weak. I didn't know you were looking for a Horse-type game comparison where Pavel can go off the glass, off the goalie's head and nothin' but net. If that alone were a fair basis on what makes one better than the next, then I'd ask for comparable highlights of Datsyuk mucking it up in the corners, drawing 2-3 defenders to chase him in the offensive zone thus opening up passing opportunities, etc. But that'd be stupid and that's not how I like to talk hockey. If all of that stuff related to more points I'd be more likely to agree with you, but that's not the case.

Really though thanks so far for an actual response instead of just shit-talking :lol: I love talking hockey, players, stats, history, historical comparisons, etc. but most the time it's not worth it.
 
Ozz said:
I was responding to your comment about his puck possession apparently being weak. I didn't know you were looking for a Horse-type game comparison where Pavel can go off the glass, off the goalie's head and nothin' but net. If that alone were a fair basis on what makes one better than the next, then I'd ask for comparable highlights of Datsyuk mucking it up in the corners, drawing 2-3 defenders to chase him in the offensive zone thus opening up passing opportunities, etc. But that'd be stupid and that's not how I like to talk hockey. If all of that stuff related to more points I'd be more likely to agree with you, but that's not the case.

Really though thanks so far for an actual response instead of just shit-talking :lol: I love talking hockey, players, stats, history, historical comparisons, etc. but most the time it's not worth it.
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It's all good man. Not gonna insult anybody on the board, nor do I even feel the need to. Just some friendly hockey talk. I'm just strickly a Red Wings fan, and really hate giving any credit to players on other teams, especially Cindey. Playing them two years in a row, and obviously after losing to them the second time just made me dislike him. :lol:
 
He got knocked loopy by Steckel in the Winter Classic, neither apparently saw each other and he took a shoulder to the head, but then after a big hit (Hedman) vs. Tampa Bay a couple days later is when it went noticed. So somewhere between those events.
 
Didn't know about the Tampa game... I knew he got rocked in Winter Classic... Damn hope he is okay... Even though it's killing me to say it...
 
The hit vs. TB wasn't even awful, I think his head snapped against the glass and he shocked himself. Or maybe they compiled on each other, who knows. It's never a bad thing to hope a guy heals up, don't worry ;)
 
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