Meth question...

swomp rat

swomp rat

Forum Member
I am looking at putting a blower on a lsx setup but I'm torn between root style and centrifical. I really wanna use the root style but I know they get heat soaked very quickly. So my question is 1) Can you run meth on a root style blower? 2) Will this take car of some of the problem with heat soaking? Just looking for some advice on the subject...
 
You can run meth on any car.

I know the centrifugal guys run 2 jets, one pre supercharger and one post. (Its supposidly makes the impeller more efficent when its cooler)

I'd imagine (not sure havent seen any set ups yet) that the helix guys run it pre- helix to make the install much easyer. I would assume that its hard to get the meth plumbed right without a spray bar in the intake manifold.
 
Doing this cuases errosion of the supercharge impeller due to its high speed. Its like diving into the water at 100mph+. Post supercharger is fine. With roots things are a bit different. The lobes are turning much much slower so it does not present nearly the problems and they typically are design to run Wet with fuel.


ASRoff said:
You can run meth on any car.

I know the centrifugal guys run 2 jets, one pre supercharger and one post. (Its supposidly makes the impeller more efficent when its cooler)

I'd imagine (not sure havent seen any set ups yet) that the helix guys run it pre- helix to make the install much easyer. I would assume that its hard to get the meth plumbed right without a spray bar in the intake manifold.
Click to expand...
 
pound for pound of boost a centrifugal typically makes more power. Driving either setup will most likely be a collsal pain in the ass unless you run a cog system if your planning on making alot of boost. In the end a turbo is alot easier even though the upfront entry costs more.

swomp rat said:
Do you guys have any preference as to centrifugal vs. roots?
Click to expand...
 
Def go with the centrifugal - it's much easier to play with pulley sizes to adjust boost curves and you can intercool it to run higher boost.
 
Sean said:
Doing this cuases errosion of the supercharge impeller due to its high speed. Its like diving into the water at 100mph+. Post supercharger is fine. With roots things are a bit different. The lobes are turning much much slower so it does not present nearly the problems and they typically are design to run Wet with fuel.
Click to expand...

A member from this site emailed us about this thread and the topic of pre-compressor injection. We've been running pre-compressor injection for years no without any problems. Not only have I ran it on my own Vortech set ups over the years. We have literally sold hundreds and hundreds of units over the past 3 years set up this way. And just about every diesel system that we sell is set up this way as well. You'll find many of our customers running pre-compressor injection on forums like the corral, turbo mustang forum and yellowbullet doing the same. You won't find one of our customers who has eroded there impeller.

Recently we had a customer set the record as the worlds fastest C6 Z06 Corvette running on pump gas who's running a system we set up for them which incorporates pre-compressor injection.

Let me know if you have any questions about this or how else I can help.

Rodney

Here's the link to the article.

AIS water/meth kit in the world's fastest C6 ZO6

0909gmthp_04_z+2007_chevy_corvette_z06+drag_race_launch.jpg


photo_08.html

0909gmthp_09_z+2007_chevy_corvette_z06+nitrous_kit.jpg


0909gmthp_05_z+2007_chevy_corvette_z06+performance_engine_component.jpg


0909gmthp_11_z+2007_chevy_corvette_z06+performance_engine_parts.jpg
[/QUOTE]
 
You can debate it all ya want. For limited interval use with low duty cycles it may take alot of time to develope any meaningful damage. On a dialy driven street car you are in a whole different world of wear and duty cycle.



AIS said:
A member from this site emailed us about this thread and the topic of pre-compressor injection. We've been running pre-compressor injection for years no without any problems. Not only have I ran it on my own Vortech set ups over the years. We have literally sold hundreds and hundreds of units over the past 3 years set up this way. And just about every diesel system that we sell is set up this way as well. You'll find many of our customers running pre-compressor injection on forums like the corral, turbo mustang forum and yellowbullet doing the same. You won't find one of our customers who has eroded there impeller.

Recently we had a customer set the record as the worlds fastest C6 Z06 Corvette running on pump gas who's running a system we set up for them which incorporates pre-compressor injection.

Let me know if you have any questions about this or how else I can help.

Rodney

Here's the link to the article.

AIS water/meth kit in the world's fastest C6 ZO6

0909gmthp_04_z+2007_chevy_corvette_z06+drag_race_launch.jpg


photo_08.html

0909gmthp_09_z+2007_chevy_corvette_z06+nitrous_kit.jpg


0909gmthp_05_z+2007_chevy_corvette_z06+performance_engine_component.jpg


0909gmthp_11_z+2007_chevy_corvette_z06+performance_engine_parts.jpg
Click to expand...
[/quote]
 
Pretty sure any car with meth is going to be limited and low duty cycle, or it's going to get expensive. Last time I looked the tanks weren't 20 gallon. What are they 1-2 gallon?

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't use meth, I've heard of too many cars going "dry" or not working correctly. It always ends bad. More octane, intercoooled or just don't run crazy boost.

If his car is going to be a street car, with limited track use, the roots will be more fun. Roots give you a better seat of the pants feel. Save the centrifugal or turbo for the race cars. I'd also say Turbo over a centrifugal. Belts SUCK!!!
 
I know guys who guy through a couple a gallons in a night hanging on woodward and thats the exact type of use that really starts to eat up the impeller.

This debate got hashed out on bullet and a steam turbine engineer came in and told him the same thing. Liquid water on a compressor was a bad idea becuase the cavitation would start to eat the compressor wheel up.

They have the same problem at power plants with undervaoprized steam.



91trunk said:
Pretty sure any car with meth is going to be limited and low duty cycle, or it's going to get expensive. Last time I looked the tanks weren't 20 gallon. What are they 1-2 gallon?

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't use meth, I've heard of too many cars going "dry" or not working correctly. It always ends bad. More octane, intercoooled or just don't run crazy boost.

If his car is going to be a street car, with limited track use, the roots will be more fun. Roots give you a better seat of the pants feel. Save the centrifugal or turbo for the race cars. I'd also say Turbo over a centrifugal. Belts SUCK!!!
Click to expand...
 
Sean said:
I know guys who guy through a couple a gallons in a night hanging on woodward and thats the exact type of use that really starts to eat up the impeller.

This debate got hashed out on bullet and a steam turbine engineer came in and told him the same thing. Liquid water on a compressor was a bad idea becuase the cavitation would start to eat the compressor wheel up.

They have the same problem at power plants with undervaoprized steam.
Click to expand...

Our diesel guys are going through 5-10 gallons per tank on average. Years of use, countless gallons passed through the turbo over the years and no wear.

I ran a turbocharged big block chevy 15 years ago in which I had a draw through carburetor placed just before the turbo. This was before we knew ow to modify carburetors and blow through them like we have now. Ran the entire fuel system through the turbo and still no problems.

The majority of our systems over the past 3 years have been set up with pre-compressor injection. Literally hundreds and hundreds of our customers running pre-compressor injection on all type of vehicles. Not one person has experienced any problems. Now we don't hear back from everyone. But over the years customers do call back to make changes to their system. Everyone one of them has been watching their impeller for this very reason and everyone of them says the everything is fine.

Here's a customer on the corral who started a thread for this very reason. He's running one of our competitors systems in which a solid stream of fluid is injected right at the impeller and still no problem. Here's the link

http://forums.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1169994&highlight=meth

On my last Mustang I must have put 40+ gallons through the Vortech. No issues. Daily driven.

Rodney
 
And yet a lowly K&N airfilter on a 7.3 truck turns the compressor blades into sand blasted swisscheese with typical driving in as little as 10,000-15,000 miles.

It's not like you guys inveted something new here. People have been spraying water into turbos for years.

There a reason most of them stopped.

You also don't want to vaporize the water before it gets to the cylinder. Sort of defeats the purpose of water injection. You want your water to steam conversion to occur in the chamber during the peak of the combustion process to take out as much latent heat as you can.

but whatever.

Also you have issue with puddling and water buildup in the charge pipping and intercoolers.

Best place to sray water is right ahead of the throttle blade. Shears nicely on the blade and does its job very effectively.

But 8 aquamist nozzles in each port like a nitrous system work good to and also helps with any potential for pooling and ponding in the intake manifold.

AIS said:
Our diesel guys are going through 5-10 gallons per tank on average. Years of use, countless gallons passed through the turbo over the years and no wear.

I ran a turbocharged big block chevy 15 years ago in which I had a draw through carburetor placed just before the turbo. This was before we knew ow to modify carburetors and blow through them like we have now. Ran the entire fuel system through the turbo and still no problems.

The majority of our systems over the past 3 years have been set up with pre-compressor injection. Literally hundreds and hundreds of our customers running pre-compressor injection on all type of vehicles. Not one person has experienced any problems. Now we don't hear back from everyone. But over the years customers do call back to make changes to their system. Everyone one of them has been watching their impeller for this very reason and everyone of them says the everything is fine.

Here's a customer on the corral who started a thread for this very reason. He's running one of our competitors systems in which a solid stream of fluid is injected right at the impeller and still no problem. Here's the link

http://forums.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1169994&highlight=meth

On my last Mustang I must have put 40+ gallons through the Vortech. No issues. Daily driven.

Rodney
Click to expand...
 
I have a simple question. Why not just put the nozzle at the throttle body. Most of us in the buick camp have been doing that 4 years. Not necc to reinvent the wheel. Simple works best imo!!
 
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