LT1<>LS1><$$ Modding

furian76

furian76

Forum Member
Been looking through LT1 cars, and LS1 cars. I have limited experience with LS1 vehicles and I have heard there are years to avoid and years that are really good. And some years that have certain equipment.

I dont know how much of that is true but I wanted the pros opinions on this matter. Here is my layout for information. If a vehicle has an LS2 engine in later years just replace LS1 with LS2 in your reply.
1: LT1
a: base engine​
1:Costs​
2:Issues​
3:Year​
4:Pros over LS1​
b: Super Charger​
1:Brand​
2:Costs​
3:Issues​
4:Additional Modifications required​
c: Turbo​
1:Brand​
2:Costs​
3:Issues​
4:Additional Modifications required​

2: LS1
a: base engine​
1:Costs​
2:Issues​
3:Year​
4:Pros over LT1​
b: Super Charger​
1:Brand​
2:Costs​
3:Issues​
4:Additional Modifications required​
c: Turbo​
1:Brand​
2:Costs​
3:Issues​
4:Additional Modifications required​

I figure this will allow me to choose a vehicle based on future mods but working from the best starting point I possibly can.

Thanks again for any help
 
If your thinking of buying an Lt1 or LS1 car, go LS1. It's just a better engine. Cost of engine mods can be higher, but you are starting at a higher stock power level too.
 
Yes thinking of choosing.

But I know there is different versions of the LS1 that is better to have or not to have in some cases.
 
That I can agree with just by numbers. But what about the different years of the LS1 and the different years of the vehicles they reside in with good or bad options or issue!
 
see above.

the ls1 engines did have some problems with piston slap/knock. that aside most of them are out of service and have been replaced by now. Just make sure you cold start the motor if you shopping for a ls1 powered vehicle of pre 2004 vintage.

furian76 said:
That I can agree with just by numbers. But what about the different years of the LS1 and the different years of the vehicles they reside in with good or bad options or issue!
Click to expand...
 
So it was a recall issue that was resolved and all of the LS1 based engines have the same power ratings and performance? Is there a prefered year that should be looked for above all others. This includes the vehicle it actually sits in like the TA, Z28, SS, or WS6
 
furian76 said:
So it was a recall issue that was resolved and all of the LS1 based engines have the same power ratings and performance? Is there a prefered year that should be looked for above all others. This includes the vehicle it actually sits in like the TA, Z28, SS, or WS6
Click to expand...

stock for stock pretty much all the F car 98-2002 cars have the same output. The later 2000 up cars have slightly improved heads and generally the 2001-20002 cars came with the ls6 intakes.

There wasn;t a recall but they did replace alot of engines.

Stock for stock they are all within a few HP. LS! and then the ls2 and the ls6. Across the years the subcatagory motors in a given engine sub family are all relatively the same. 97-99 car had the worst rods bolts and the 2000 up cars had improved ones. There were some changes in the block materials and casting process that makes certian blocks better then others but these differences are marginal until you see the break from the gen 3 ls1 family to the gen 4 ls2 family.

You also have truck iron blocks which are arguably stronger then the aluminum blocks. The primary reason most people build those is the icnreased bore size to 4 inchs from 3.900

You won;t see ls2's till the c6 corvette and the GTO introductions in late 04 early 05. Some of the early GTO's had ls2 engines but they weren;t really ls2's. They were 6.0 engines. The first GTO's had 5.7 ls1's.

Your asking a very broad question.

Exactly what vehicle are you looking to buy. If you want to go fast a F body or Vette would be the best starting point. If you wanna go sub 10's a F body would be better and with upgraded driveline parts far more durable then a vette.
 
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Well, I am a huge fan of the LT1's just because of the simplicity I have had working on them and the luck I have had with them.

The LS1's would be the natural progression for having something with good OOTB performance. I not looking to run 10's right away but I wouldn't be surprised if I ended up there. I went broad so that I got opinions or info on what I should narrow my search down to. Like you mentioned the 2001-2002 with the LS6 intake. Now I will probably narrow my search for the 2001-2002 f-body's.

I definitely want a stick shift. I was thinking t-tops, but I have heard horror stories about people not locking them or passengers going "hey whats this" and having it fly off mid travel.

Thanks for some info
 
furian76 said:
Well, I am a huge fan of the LT1's just because of the simplicity I have had working on them and the luck I have had with them.
Click to expand...

Simple?! Luck? Do you even know what a butt fuck an optispark is? Most of that engine is built on technology that is almost 60 years old. Get an LS1, you will never look back. -Mike, 3x former LT1 owner/lover/LS1 hater
 
An LT1 shouldn't even be in your thought process. Because just about every GM V8 engine other than the Cadillac Northstar is based off of the original LS1, parts can be mixed and matched for combinations GM hasn't thought about. Toss in stroker cranks, sleaved cylinders, etc., and your options are endless simply based on your wallet.

What I would suggest is a book from HP Books called "Chevy LS1/LS6 Performance" written by Christopher Endres. This was originally printed in 2003 and I'm not sure it was updated, but it will give you a basic knowledge of the engine family of the Gen III and Gen IV engines. This will include the 4.8L, the 5.3L, the 5.7L and the 6.0L. Many parts are interchangeable between engines and different vehicles use variations of the same parts (like oil pans).

Obviously there has been a lot of new technology since 2003. Head changes, cylinder deactivation, improvements to blocks, heads, camshafts, etc have brought out the LS7 and other higher performance engines.

You'd think I'm a big GM guy, but I'm not. I'm actually a Chrysler guy and have owned numerous Fords, but I will admit these are probably the best engine family out there right now.

By the way, I like passive power and I like it to be usable. This is why I like the Magnuson superchargers. It's basically a roots type S/C from Eaton. It's not a top end piece. It's very similar to the supercharger on the ZR1. For racing purposes, I'd look at a turbo.
 
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Mike94ZLT1 said:
Simple?! Luck? Do you even know what a butt fuck an optispark is? Most of that engine is built on technology that is almost 60 years old. Get an LS1, you will never look back. -Mike, 3x former LT1 owner/lover/LS1 hater
Click to expand...

Yes
So far
Yes I do. Not that hard to swap out if you have a few hours and the tools to do it.


While I agree that the opticrap sucks donkey balls, I so far, have had no issues with them. I know MSD makes a replacement and there have been a few coil conversions. While the technology is old, it doesn't mean it's bad.

I have owned several LT1 cars, and I have worked on one of them extensively. Hell I even sold every part of the one I worked on to people that were part of motown muscle several years back, drivetrain and suspension wise. Motor, even though it is a 2 bolt, was in excellent shape. Heads were still in great shape as well. The trans had alot of work put into it and the person that bought it put it on a 550hp motor. While thats nothing in this club, it means a lot when it was previously only strapped to my cars massive 252 rwhp.

I would say the crappiest thing or the hardest thing I found to do on an LT1 was headers. I put on a set of shorty BBK's and I would have rather cut off a pinky finger than do that again.
 
One other thing. Many avoid the '97 & '98 engines because the valve covers (and heads) are perimeter bolt type and are only used these years. Newer heads are better than the early heads.
 
Swifster said:
An LT1 shouldn't even be in your thought process. Because just about every GM V8 engine other than the Cadillac Northstar is based off of the original LS1, parts can be mixed and matched for combinations GM hasn't thought about. Toss in stroker cranks, sleaved cylinders, etc., and your options are endless simply based on your wallet.

What I would suggest is a book from HP Books called "Chevy LS1/LS6 Performance" written by Christopher Endres. This was originally printed in 2003 and I'm not sure it was updated, but it will give you a basic knowledge of the engine family of the Gen III and Gen IV engines. This will include the 4.8L, the 5.3L, the 5.7L and the 6.0L. Many parts are interchangeable between engines and different vehicles use variations of the same parts (like oil pans).

Obviously there has been a lot of new technology since 2003. Head changes, cylinder deactivation, improvements to blocks, heads, camshafts, etc have brought out the LS7 and other higher performance engines.

You'd think I'm a big GM guy, but I'm not. I'm actually a Chrysler guy and have owned numerous Fords, but I will admit these are probably the best engine family out there right now.

By the way, I like passive power and I like it to be usable. This is why I like the Magnuson superchargers. It's basically a roots type S/C from Eaton. It's not a top end piece. It's very similar to the supercharger on the ZR1. For racing purposes, I'd look at a turbo.
Click to expand...


I am looking at whats available without breaking the bank. LT1's are cheap right now. LS1's with my requirements are hard to find for some reason. I might not be looking in ht e right places. I also don't want a vehicle thats been beat to death either. For me nitrous is a no no, and I know the LS1 motors love it. It's also the best bang for the buck at the track.

I like the idea of the supercharger. I like the passive power idea as well. But man the surge of a turbo when you jump on it is just awesome.

Anyone have any drawbacks or comments about Turbo's over superchargers? Power, cost, maintenance, and whether or not motor mods are required?
 
Swifster said:
One other thing. Many avoid the '97 & '98 engines because the valve covers (and heads) are perimeter bolt type and are only used these years. Newer heads are better than the early heads.
Click to expand...



Now thats great info to know! Thanks

Stay away from 97-98, 2001 and 2002 possibly have LS6 intakes
 
furian76 said:
I am looking at whats available without breaking the bank. LT1's are cheap right now. LS1's with my requirements are hard to find for some reason. I might not be looking in ht e right places. I also don't want a vehicle thats been beat to death either. For me nitrous is a no no, and I know the LS1 motors love it. It's also the best bang for the buck at the track.

I like the idea of the supercharger. I like the passive power idea as well. But man the surge of a turbo when you jump on it is just awesome.

Anyone have any drawbacks or comments about Turbo's over superchargers? Power, cost, maintenance, and whether or not motor mods are required?
Click to expand...

Personally I like superchargers myself, but admittedly have never had a turbo kit on any of my cars. To me a supercharger is just simpler, really the only thing you have to worry about with some kits is throwing a belt, and from what I've seen the Vortech kits for LT1s don't have any problems with this. Personally whether it's supercharger or turbo, I wouldn't run one on a stock LT1. The rule of thumb is that you can make it live at 6-7psi with good tuning, but anything more than that and it's just a matter of time. Even at 6-7psi people still blow them. On the other hand, many people have had success with a budget blower LT1 by reusing the stock crank, stock rods with good bolts, and good blower pistons. I've heard of several setups like that running 500-550rwhp reliably.

Maintenance-wise, I never had any trouble with my Vortech T-trim on a mildly-built stock cubes LT1 with 2-bolt mains. The only thing that happened because I was running 17psi I kept blowing the plastic tube between the blower and throttle body, so I had a metal one fabricated but that's a relatively minor expense on a setup like that. Also had a hard inlet tube as well so no issues with that either. That blower had probably 15,000-20,000 miles on it before I bought the car, 5,000+ miles on it in my possession, and I sold it used 5 years ago and the new owner is still running it on his car all without any problems.

Again, I can't really speak about turbos from personal experience, but I've had such a good experience with centrifugal blowers that I'm sticking with them for now, and from all the stories I've heard it seems like the turbo guys have a harder time sorting out their setups and getting everything working reliably enough to daily drive it.

One thing you can find though is really good deals on built lt1 shortblocks and complete engines.
 
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Taking everything into account so far.

I am looking at 2005 GTO's. I did some reading comparing the different years, and the pros and cons of LS1 based solid rear axle cars and the GTO's IRS LS2. I have driven the GTO's before and was extremely impressed with there interior styling and comfort. The extra leg room was also a welcomed addition compaired to my 96 camaro ss and my 95 T/A. I was also reading into the mods that can be done to these cars, and it seems there is an endless slew for the 2005. The 2004 had a bunch too but with the weaker IRS and smaller brakes, i would be a fool to start from a lower end version to save a few bucks. I appreciate every ones feed back. If there is still more info, please continue to post as I am not planning to buy one for another month. I want to make sure I am thoroughly informed before I fly out to Texas or California to buy a car!
 
Sean said:
You won;t see ls2's till the c6 corvette and the GTO introductions in late 04 early 05. Some of the early GTO's had ls2 engines but they weren;t really ls2's. They were 6.0 engines. The first GTO's had 5.7 ls1's.
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All 2005 and 2006 GTO's were LS2's.. no idea where you are going with the "not really LS2" thing. heads, cam and block were all the same. pan, exhaust manifolds crank pulley and water pump were different than the Corvette LS2.

IIRC, 2000+ LS1 blocks are stronger, Like Sean said, the perimeter bolt heads and rocker covers are kinda unique, but you can update to the center bolt heads and valvecovers, it all interchanges.

When the GenIV came out, the dropped the LS1/LS6, so 5.7L's went away. LS2's came in in 2005 on the Corvette and GTO, 2006 in the TBSS and SSR. In 2007, the L76 came in, the truck ones had a different block casting than the car L76 (used in the G8). The Car casting is more desirable because it has holes in the main bulkheads for bay-bay breathing, and is worth over 10 (OEM tested) HP at engine speeds over 5800 RPM or so.

I can go on for pages on the differences year-year, but you need to ask specifically what you want to know.

FYI, the piston slap noise, while annoying, never caused a premature failure. GM tightened up the piston-bore clearance, added coatings on the piston skirt, and went to full-floating pistons. That pretty much took care of it. The LS3 Grand Sport I am borrowing for the weekend has no sign of it (started it at 55 degrees the morning), but the 4.8L I put in my 93 Sierra does when it's below 50 degrees outside. BTW,the 4.8L still runs pretty damn strong for the smallest motor in the family, and towed my Caprice on the trailer at 88 mph in OD.. I kinda had the speedo cal a little off when I first built the truck.

You really can't go wrong with any of the LS engines though. Just pick what your ultimate power target is (and budget), and start asking q's. For example, a 5.3L iron block engine is freaking cheap to find, and makes 295-315 HP stock with 330+ ft-#. It out powers a stock LT1 by a long shot. If you want a 500 HP ride though, I'd start with a 6.0... you can see complicated it gets if you don't narrow your goals a bit.
 
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Yeah I can understand a little about narrowing down my questions.
I just don't know enough to ask the right questions. But so far based on what I want from a car as a starting point and the expected basic performance, the LS2 based GTO would be my best option.

From what I read it has 400HP and 360Trq to start and can produce low 13's easily on the track. While the numbers are not super out of the box, they leave alot of room for improvement with little effort. The biggest being learning how to handle it off the line.

Like i said I am not looking to pick one up tomorrow, but I think my focus at this point is to research as much as I can specifically around the 2005 GTO.

The features I like the most so far, other than the spaciousness of the car it self is:
Manual
Different hood styling
2 tone color combo with interior
Leather
larger break package
LS2 engine


I think my focus for potential will be on Suspension around the IRS system and a forced induction system.
 
98 camaro z28
-long tubes
-custom H pipe and true duals
-3800 stall
-pcm for less mail order tune
-K&N with SLP lid
-LS6 intake
-295 wide nitto's

12.3x @ 115
 
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