ITT Tech closing the doors

[Tin]

No. You're either leaving out facts so you can talk shit about Obama or you just haven't bothered to read up on ITT and their issues. Them closing is a good thing. They preyed on uneducated and poor people who were already in a shitty spot and managed to make it worse for quite a few of them. Their recruiting schemes, their job placement rates, their drop out rate, etc. There are plenty of reasons they're different than other non-profit and even most for profit schools.

When you get to the bottom of it, ITT appeared to be an outright scam. With federal student loans, the school gets paid and continues operating, while the student pays their debt to the government. ITT hasn't met ACICS standards for quite some time. Now, if ITT credits were transferable, it wouldn't have been nearly as big of an issue, but they the were non-transferable which essentially made their degrees worth about as much as the paper they were printed on. That was their business model for the last couple of decades. I was reading yesterday that the number of federal student loans issued to ITT students had a payoff rate of 13%, while public colleges and universities sit at 66%. That alone should say something.

 

[WhiteHawk]

No. You're either leaving out facts so you can talk shit about Obama or you just haven't bothered to read up on ITT and their issues. Them closing is a good thing. They preyed on uneducated and poor people who were already in a shitty spot and managed to make it worse for quite a few of them. Their recruiting schemes, their job placement rates, their drop out rate, etc. There are plenty of reasons they're different than other non-profit and even most for profit schools.

I am leaving out facts like everyone who goes there is "uneducated and poor people who were already in a shitty spot"? Someone doesn't have the info and it isn't me.

Is it the best option? No. Is it an option? Yes. Do you know how many worthless degrees a public university give out every year? Did ITT have an Art History Department? A Sociology department? Did they teach classes about Star Trek? Film? Because all that shit exists every day in public universities, and is supported by our tax dollars. So ITT comes along, and yea, it is for profit, but they focus on giving people real skills, not bullshit.

But the government doesn't like their success rate on loans? Are you fucking kidding me? We don't even grade teachers at public schools, let alone programs at public colleges and universities. But somehow our government is supposed to know enough that this school is a bad option? The problem is, the same level of dumbasses that take "Philosophy of Star Trek" at Georgetown University (look it up) also go to ITT and take worthless programs there. Is it ITT's fault? According to the Feds it is. But it sure is fine to offer that Star Trek course at Georgetown University isn't it? The double standard here just boggles my mind.

So yea, this is an example of the Feds picking and choosing winners. I have seen it too many times to think it is any different.

-Geoff

 

[mrvids]

I talked to a former ITT student who had to pay all her tuition up front, and the school forged her name every year on documents so the school could collect money from the government even though she stopped attending.

 

[Tin]

"My name is Dave. I graduated from ITT Technical Institute of Technological Technology. Before, I washed dishes at a restaurant which wasn't very technical and wasn't doing much with my life. One night I was blowing cheap coke and watching tv when a commercial came on for ITT Tech, and I figured.... Well hell yeah. I do ITT support now for the guv'mint, have a mansion in Bloomfield Hills, and I couldn't be happier."

 

[StockNotch]

No. You're either leaving out facts so you can talk shit about Obama or you just haven't bothered to read up on ITT and their issues. Them closing is a good thing. They preyed on uneducated and poor people who were already in a shitty spot and managed to make it worse for quite a few of them. Their recruiting schemes, their job placement rates, their drop out rate, etc. There are plenty of reasons they're different than other non-profit and even most for profit schools.

They preyed on uneducated and poor people - So they had sales people who could sell?
heir recruiting schemes - So, they had sales people that could sell?
their drop out rate - Weak people that couldn't see something through?
heir drop out rate - Sucks to suck

When you start talking about the people who went there, it was entirely up to them to get what they wanted from the program, just alike any other program. I went to the Troy location and had a good experience there with the teaching staff. Their career services was a joke and the sales people were just that, sales people. The teaching staff at Troy generally cared about the students and wanted the best for them. Now, I moved to the Kalamazoo area for work before I graduated and ended up at the Wyoming location. Holy crappy experience. Not one person cared about you and, would avoid you until they wanted more money, super shiesty practices as well. Their on-line program was a joke as well. Needless to say, I learned more at work, forcing myself through things and talking to people than I did at school. Needless say, they attempt to prepare you for an entry level of entry level job, in the IT case, a help desk receptionist.

 

[93 saturn sl2]

 

[RyeLou]

I am leaving out facts like everyone who goes there is "uneducated and poor people who were already in a shitty spot"? Someone doesn't have the info and it isn't me.

Is it the best option? No. Is it an option? Yes. Do you know how many worthless degrees a public university give out every year? Did ITT have an Art History Department? A Sociology department? Did they teach classes about Star Trek? Film? Because all that shit exists every day in public universities, and is supported by our tax dollars. So ITT comes along, and yea, it is for profit, but they focus on giving people real skills, not bullshit.

But the government doesn't like their success rate on loans? Are you fucking kidding me? We don't even grade teachers at public schools, let alone programs at public colleges and universities. But somehow our government is supposed to know enough that this school is a bad option? The problem is, the same level of dumbasses that take "Philosophy of Star Trek" at Georgetown University (look it up) also go to ITT and take worthless programs there. Is it ITT's fault? According to the Feds it is. But it sure is fine to offer that Star Trek course at Georgetown University isn't it? The double standard here just boggles my mind.

So yea, this is an example of the Feds picking and choosing winners. I have seen it too many times to think it is any different.

-Geoff

You're not even addressing the issue. You're absolutely right, anybody can major in whatever they want, and they can also choose to go where they want, too. The problem is the business practices of ITT, not the courses they offered. We can even set aside the fact (as Tin keeps pointing out) that their credits mean nothing anywhere other then at ITT and just look at the business of ITT. They received federal funding based on meeting specific requirements, which they stopped meeting a long time ago. This has nothing to do with Philosophy of Star Trek or Walking 101 classes. Every college and university has some worthless classes, but that's not the point. ITT pitched themselves as a very specific thing. A technical school with different types of requirements to get in that would help you develop skills for a working career and then also help place you in a job. Those aren't even the ACICS standards for accreditation we should be talking about. This is literally nothing more than a bait and switch to some people. You sign up, hand over your cash and in return they give you nothing they promised.

They preyed on uneducated and poor people - So they had sales people who could sell?
heir recruiting schemes - So, they had sales people that could sell?
their drop out rate - Weak people that couldn't see something through?
heir drop out rate - Sucks to suck

When you start talking about the people who went there, it was entirely up to them to get what they wanted from the program, just alike any other program. I went to the Troy location and had a good experience there with the teaching staff. Their career services was a joke and the sales people were just that, sales people. The teaching staff at Troy generally cared about the students and wanted the best for them. Now, I moved to the Kalamazoo area for work before I graduated and ended up at the Wyoming location. Holy crappy experience. Not one person cared about you and, would avoid you until they wanted more money, super shiesty practices as well. Their on-line program was a joke as well. Needless to say, I learned more at work, forcing myself through things and talking to people than I did at school. Needless say, they attempt to prepare you for an entry level of entry level job, in the IT case, a help desk receptionist.

Your experience there was good because of the people, not because of the company that was ITT. The instructors themselves, academic advisers and a lot of other people who worked at ITT were there for all the right reasons, and they're also the reason that anybody made it through successfully. The data literally supports every aspect of these claims. It's not that you couldn't be successful at ITT, it was that they claimed to do X, Y and Z but didn't, and X, Y and Z were the most basic reasons someone would have signed up to go there. (Job placement, career skills, etc.)

 

[StockNotch]

You're not even addressing the issue. You're absolutely right, anybody can major in whatever they want, and they can also choose to go where they want, too. The problem is the business practices of ITT, not the courses they offered. We can even set aside the fact (as Tin keeps pointing out) that their credits mean nothing anywhere other then at ITT and just look at the business of ITT. They received federal funding based on meeting specific requirements, which they stopped meeting a long time ago. This has nothing to do with Philosophy of Star Trek or Walking 101 classes. Every college and university has some worthless classes, but that's not the point. ITT pitched themselves as a very specific thing. A technical school with different types of requirements to get in that would help you develop skills for a working career and then also help place you in a job. Those aren't even the ACICS standards for accreditation we should be talking about. This is literally nothing more than a bait and switch to some people. You sign up, hand over your cash and in return they give you nothing they promised.




Your experience there was good because of the people, not because of the company that was ITT. The instructors themselves, academic advisers and a lot of other people who worked at ITT were there for all the right reasons, and they're also the reason that anybody made it through successfully. The data literally supports every aspect of these claims. It's not that you couldn't be successful at ITT, it was that they claimed to do X, Y and Z but didn't, and X, Y and Z were the most basic reasons someone would have signed up to go there. (Job placement, career skills, etc.)

The credits while, not easily/directly transferable, do transfer. I went through the process with Western when I moved out here. There are two ways to do it (through Western and possibly all schools as I know a few that decided to go to other universities), one you go to the school for 6 months and then they will review your transcripts for transferring credits or two, you break down and provide course descriptions and syllabus' for each class that you took. After you provide that, the school would go through and figure out what classes you took that match up to the classes they offer.

I won't even debate the job placement part, all they do is watch Craigslist/Career builder for internships or super low paying jobs most of which, tend to be part time. I even had a to setup rules so I didn't see their emails that they sent, even though I had a job and told them I am not interested in their help.

 

[WhiteHawk]

You're not even addressing the issue. You're absolutely right, anybody can major in whatever they want, and they can also choose to go where they want, too. The problem is the business practices of ITT, not the courses they offered. We can even set aside the fact (as Tin keeps pointing out) that their credits mean nothing anywhere other then at ITT and just look at the business of ITT. They received federal funding based on meeting specific requirements, which they stopped meeting a long time ago. This has nothing to do with Philosophy of Star Trek or Walking 101 classes. Every college and university has some worthless classes, but that's not the point. ITT pitched themselves as a very specific thing. A technical school with different types of requirements to get in that would help you develop skills for a working career and then also help place you in a job. Those aren't even the ACICS standards for accreditation we should be talking about. This is literally nothing more than a bait and switch to some people. You sign up, hand over your cash and in return they give you nothing they promised.

I don't disagree with you. So fix the problem. But the Feds didn't do that. They made up a new bullshit requirement that specifically put ITT out of business. That is what I have a problem with. The government didn't shut them down for any of the stuff you said. They made a new rule that was narrowly tailored to ITT, and it shut them down. That is bullshit. If they were cheating on federal aid, then charge them criminally. That is not what happened here though.

-Geoff

 

[RyeLou]

I won't even debate the job placement part, all they do is watch Craigslist/Career builder for internships or super low paying jobs most of which, tend to be part time. I even had a to setup rules so I didn't see their emails that they sent, even though I had a job and told them I am not interested in their help.

I actually find that hilarious.

 

[twotwoturbo]

"My name is Dave. I graduated from ITT Technical Institute of Technological Technology. Before, I washed dishes at a restaurant which wasn't very technical and wasn't doing much with my life. One night I was blowing cheap coke and watching tv when a commercial came on for ITT Tech, and I figured.... Well hell yeah. I do ITT support now for the guv'mint, have a mansion in Bloomfield Hills, and I couldn't be happier."

hahaha

 

[mdhmi]

ive had resumes for designers from people with degrees in pottery, and Theater arts,

I have a family member with a psy degree from U of M who spent her entire career as a computer programmer.

We don't even grade teachers at public schools

Grading teachers isn't an easy thing to do. You could have a great teacher with lazy unmotivated students. Is it the teacher's fault that those kids don't score well on tests? Not in my view.
You could also have a shitty teacher in a class full of bright people who are learning via self-study and doing well on the tests.

Without rehashing what has already been stated well by Rye and Tin I'll simply mention that there's good reason why ITT credits didn't transfer to legit schools.