Got to love Detroit
- Thread starter L98Terror
- Start date
sidewayscoupe
Club Member
X2 (but mine was 6 years ago....) makes me want to 
uke:
Renting in Michigan might not be a bad idea.
uke: Renting in Michigan might not be a bad idea.
moneypit said:
L98Terror said:
Big 3, obviously. In the 90s when the economy was great, the big 3 were raking in the cash. Now, the economy is allegedly great again, but the big 3 are in the shitter. :dontknow:
L98Terror
Club Member
uluz2a6 said:
I favor business growth, It has been shown time and time again the freer the economic market the more growth you will have growth=jobs. Profits=reinvestments.
If you want to have job security & make a good wage do something other people can't do or do it better than everyone else doing it. Otherwise you risk being replaced by someone making less money. It's that simple.
The funny thing about Michigan is that we have some of the lowest housing costs and the highest unemployment rate yet people still demand high wages. For example I can build a house in Atlanta for about 25% less than MI, it make no sense. The unions have poisoned the minds of so many, they'd rather be unemployed before taking a pay cut.
BTW you could always start a company and put people in front of your profits, wait you can't because the bank won't lend you money if you do that.
L98Terror
Club Member
cASe SenSiTive said:
My take on it is this, the big three where making big $$$ the Unions saw that and got greedy saying they didn't care about the people so they asked for and got more......fast forward to a time when the big three weren't raking it in the unions didn't say hey things aren't that good anymore maybe we should give back some of those concessions.
Business do well when business is good & do bad when business is bad, employees want to do well all the time. If you give away the store when things are good you are screwed when things are bad.
Management also played a hand by not designing cars people wanted and allowing waste though out the companies.
Also they got lazy and allowed foreign competition to get the upper hand, did you here that Chrysler is going to start selling Chinese cars in the US this year?
mdhmi
Club Member
L98Terror said:
The picture he posted is relevant to the extent that the Michigan economy is being sacrificed on the alter of free (unfair) trade that greatly impacts the ability of the Big Three to maintain profitability.
Also remember that Detroit has benefited greatly over the past several decades by having a large concentration of automotive related jobs.
It seems a bit unfair to blame a state governor for fiscal problems led by a precipitous decline in market share by the Big Three.
86CamaroZ28
Club Member
tax breaks arn't gonna do shit when workers demand to be paid out the ass. in most cases more than their worth. as stated before, when the company does well the unions will demand more. inturn causing the same results.moneypit said:
L98Terror
Club Member
moneypit said:
I'm not sure if this is true but I heard the reason she didn't want to make a deal with Honda & Toyota is because they didn't want to use union labor.
I'm sure if that's true the unions really put the pressure on to prevent it, once again the unions have ruined Michigan.
WhiteHawk
Club Member
Toyota doesn't pay that bad. The workers also get quarterly bonuses which put their annual salary on par with the big 3. The lifetime health and pension is where the costs really come in and Toyota doesn't offer that. I am sure if Toyota opened up a new plant they could staff 1000 people at $10-$15 per hour right now.
Jenny couldn't give them tax breaks because it would be unfair to the big three - she would have had to give everyone a tax break which she couldn't afford. She tried using our "highly skilled work force" as the big reason to move here. Nice job.
-Geoff
Jenny couldn't give them tax breaks because it would be unfair to the big three - she would have had to give everyone a tax break which she couldn't afford. She tried using our "highly skilled work force" as the big reason to move here. Nice job.
-Geoff
86CamaroZ28
Club Member
L98Terror said:
ding ding ding ding :laugh:
mdhmi
Club Member
WhiteHawk said:
Which is *FAR* less than the Big Three pay.
L98Terror said:
The SBT is being sundowned, and even if it were still around the majority of small businesses never paid it. Increasing the minimum wage is a mixed bag. You have to ask yourself - can you think of any company that pays it? I can't.
dpmcghee
Club Member
L98Terror said:
Of course they wouldn't want to use union labor. Why should they allow themselves to be strong-armed by a bunch of lazy thugs...? Toyota is smart enough to see what union influence has done to the Big 3 in recent years.
Someone said this already, but i think its right on the money... If only the unions would be willing to let go of some of their demands/expectations. Why keep this up and run these compaies into the ground? It is just plain stupid to destroy the very hand that feeds you.
Dan
dpmcghee
Club Member
mdhmi said:
Exactly, which is why the Big 3 can't compete in this environment any longer.
It is just plain stupidity to pay a line-worker $30-$40 per hour to do a job that any uneducated schmoe off the street can do. It is simply NOT good business. The days of sons following in daddy's footsteps at Ford and getting into these cushy kinds of jobs are over. I'm not suggesting that they are easy (often they are quite monotonous, which is hard in itself, but doesn't justify the ridiculous salaries), I'm just suggesting that they don't take a whole lot of education.
This same uneducated worker will go else-where and find that he can make only about $10-$15 per hour... It is what the market demands and it is what Toyota is willing to pay for non-skilled labor.
Why is this so hard to understand?
Dan
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WhiteHawk
Club Member
mdhmi said:
If you figure in the quarterly performance based bonuses (which they currently always get), they are between $20 and $25. Big three is at $26 right now. Free press did a really good comparison a year or so ago, which is where I am getting my info (I don't have archive access or I would link it). They are within a buck or two in base compensation. The difference is in the lifetime benefits the UAW guys get.
-Geoff
