Got The Car Tuned On E85

cjmatt said:
Meijer is always around 85%, just FYI

So whats the fuel system consist of?
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I agree.....the stuff I get at meijer is always close to 85%....82-83% on the Quikfuel test tube I use.

Fuel system is Weldon 2025A + 160lb injectors. Base FP of 50PSI.

I use the Fast XFI in sequential mode to fire the big injectors. The 83lb injectors maxed out at 675hp to the tire on E85 (418W + 88mm Turbo)....the Weldon 2015 was maxed as well and was loosing FP as the RPM's increased. The 2025 holds strong now and the Injector DC is usually at 50-55% at WOT 20PSI.

I saw your video of the new Saleen Matt....its a BAMF.....hurry up and make the switch to E85 and it will be the perfect street cruiser.
 
ItsJustAHonda said:
I'm not saying it can't or won't work. I just wouldn't risk it on a high dollar engine build. If the blend was consistent would you be able to tune leaner? If so then your trading power for knock prevention by tuning richer. Which brings up the argument of ever using pump e85 in the first place as a race gas replacement. If your tuning richer then your burning/using more of it; this means you'll need to buy it more often. I haven't crunched the numbers because the fuel consumption of every setup will vary but to me it doesn't make a lot of sense if the savings/benefit isn’t significant over a fuel that is specifically formulated for high horsepower.

My tuning experience is entirely with 4 cylinder engines so my perspective might be a little skewed. If horsepower output is kept constant ie a 4 cylinder that makes 800 hp and a v8 that makes 800 the 4 cylinder is making more power per cylinder and is under a lot more stress. Most of the time the 4 cylinder of equal hp will be more sensitive to knock/fuel quality.

Of course we could argue about all of the factors that play into a tune/setup but I'm trying to keep it general. My major point is that at this time I am not convinced that running pump e85 has a practical cost savings/advantage over running a similar type racing fuel.


@cjmatt. I have heard that Meijer is rather consistent. I remember reading a post on e85 that someone tested various stations and Meijer came out as being the most consistant. I believe the testing was done somehwere in the Great Lakes region where the weather varies by season.

There is also a digital meter (forgot who makes it) that uses a GM factory flex fuel sensor to monitor ethanol % realtime
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food for thought:

1.) I can run around town part throttle with a 15.5-15.9 AFR
2.) E85 requires on average 30% more fuel than convential gasoline......so at $3.39 for E85 that would mean 110 gasoline would be $5.42/gallon.
3.) I haven't seen the data that shows the benefits of E85 in relationship to cylinder cooling....ie similarities to Alcohol......but I know plenty of guys who run non-intercooled and make big power. The kind of power that most would not try on gasoline.....even C16.

I have yet to find a downfall for E85..!!!
 
98 Camaro said:
food for thought:

3.) I haven't seen the data that shows the benefits of E85 in relationship to cylinder cooling....ie similarities to Alcohol......but I know plenty of guys who run non-intercooled and make big power. The kind of power that most would not try on gasoline.....even C16.
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^Just want to make sure its apples to apples. Are these guys that are making big power on pump e85? And are they located in areas where the climate varies seasonally?

98 Camaro said:
I have yet to find a downfall for E85..!!!
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I won't deny its a good fuel as long as its not out of the pump :icon_smil. I just don't trust the consistency unless I'm buying e85 from a reliable source (racing fuel company). I have heard of a problem, within the 4 cylinder world, that because it prevents knock so well that people are able to add pretty much any amount of timing advance and not see registerable knock; this has caused a lot of cases were the head lifts. From what I hear its hard to find your max timing on the dyno when looking for knock.

You mentioned you tuned it rich to help with fluctations in the % ethanol content. I agree that this works but as I mentioned aren't you leaving potential power on the table?

I don't disbelieve big power can be made but to me I feel like if I want big power and have the money for a fuel system capable of supporting that power with e85 I probably have money to run a real racing fuel or racing e85. Again there are so many factors though. Some people want big power and want to be able to cruise around town others want to drive their race cars on the street but don't go very far.

In the end I say if it works for you the keep on keepin on :) all a matter of personal preference.
 
ItsJustAHonda said:
^Just want to make sure its apples to apples. Are these guys that are making big power on pump e85? And are they located in areas where the climate varies seasonally?
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Looks like 98 Camaro is from St. Clair. That's kinda local. LOL

Like I said I'm converting too. I'll post the downfalls when I see them if any.
 
This will be a Kroger Pump E85 car (what it was tuned on).

I will test for winter blends where it can get as low as 70% (not sure if thats true for Texas) but I can adjust the tune for it.
 
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ItsJustAHonda said:
^Just want to make sure its apples to apples. Are these guys that are making big power on pump e85? And are they located in areas where the climate varies seasonally?



I won't deny its a good fuel as long as its not out of the pump :icon_smil. I just don't trust the consistency unless I'm buying e85 from a reliable source (racing fuel company). I have heard of a problem, within the 4 cylinder world, that because it prevents knock so well that people are able to add pretty much any amount of timing advance and not see registerable knock; this has caused a lot of cases were the head lifts. From what I hear its hard to find your max timing on the dyno when looking for knock.

You mentioned you tuned it rich to help with fluctations in the % ethanol content. I agree that this works but as I mentioned aren't you leaving potential power on the table?

I don't disbelieve big power can be made but to me I feel like if I want big power and have the money for a fuel system capable of supporting that power with e85 I probably have money to run a real racing fuel or racing e85. Again there are so many factors though. Some people want big power and want to be able to cruise around town others want to drive their race cars on the street but don't go very far.

In the end I say if it works for you the keep on keepin on :) all a matter of personal preference.
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Can you let us know when you get some real data on bad fuel? Or a link to someone who has actual data? Maybe from the max effort world of imports? You sure have heard a lot of stuff, where are you hearing it? I've only heard good stuff myself, from the buick world mainly.
 
Yea, I am sure that 800+ horsepower daily driver 4 bangers are super reliable until you start running E85 - then all bets are off!

-Geoff
 
Unless I'm mistaken federal law requires no more than a 3% variance from what is labeled at the pump. Which give you an allowable window of 82.45% - 87.55% ethonal content. If you purchase fuel from a vendor and have a catasrtophic failure you could easily sue the vendor for the repairs if the fuel tests outside of the federal standards. I've run plenty of engines on E85, E10, Natural gas, propane, Methanol and probably 100 different blends of conventional gasoline. I doubt you would have any issue with buying e85 from the pump.
 
I thought I heard (hear say) that E85 can go stale quicker? Any truth to that? I may end up using that as an excuse to drive more so ultimately it won't effect me but just curious what has been experienced. How about winter storage?
 
AutoRoc said:
Can you let us know when you get some real data on bad fuel? Or a link to someone who has actual data? Maybe from the max effort world of imports? You sure have heard a lot of stuff, where are you hearing it? I've only heard good stuff myself, from the buick world mainly.
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X2 I don't understand why someone is arguing that something cant be done or "I wouldn't do this" from stuff that was read off the "Peanut Gallery" (as my buddy dads would refer to forums and the internet when in conversation haha)

Where's the data to support it? Can we see some of the testing you've done that proves this?



I have heard and seen nothing but good things with E85 in street cars using from the pump fuel. While I have no personal experience outside of dyno testing for FoMoco with E85 and what I learned way back then was the shit is an outstanding fuel as long as your not trying to start your shit in 20 below conditions because, well its only going to fire one in ten times prob and fill your oil with wash down fuel.

Warm weather though its a outstanding fuel, especially as a alternative the pricey race fuels in aggressive street cars an race cars.
 
sardeanie said:
I thought I heard (hear say) that E85 can go stale quicker? Any truth to that? I may end up using that as an excuse to drive more so ultimately it won't effect me but just curious what has been experienced. How about winter storage?
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I did nothing for winter storage. Car fired up fine the last two springs.
 
sardeanie said:
Sweet!
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It is....I probably sound like I work for the ethanol farmers...but I just love this stuff....no longer am I looking at $100 to go cruising...now it costs me $30-40 and IMO I have better performance.

Here is what I noticed from the switch:

1.) car stays much cooler - coolant temp
2.) It seems to spool up faster
3.) I thought idle/tuneability was easier on E85.
4.) Cold Start is not an issue like people have said. I can reach in and just hit the key in 50 degree weather and it fires right up.
5.) I have yet to find the limit of this fuel.
 
98 Camaro said:
It is....I probably sound like I work for the ethanol farmers...but I just love this stuff....no longer am I looking at $100 to go cruising...now it costs me $30-40 and IMO I have better performance.

Here is what I noticed from the switch:

1.) car stays much cooler - coolant temp
2.) It seems to spool up faster
3.) I thought idle/tuneability was easier on E85.
4.) Cold Start is not an issue like people have said. I can reach in and just hit the key in 50 degree weather and it fires right up.
5.) I have yet to find the limit of this fuel.
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This is all good stuff. +1 Thanks for posting.
 
98 Camaro said:
It is....I probably sound like I work for the ethanol farmers...but I just love this stuff....no longer am I looking at $100 to go cruising...now it costs me $30-40 and IMO I have better performance.

Here is what I noticed from the switch:

1.) car stays much cooler - coolant temp
2.) It seems to spool up faster
3.) I thought idle/tuneability was easier on E85.
4.) Cold Start is not an issue like people have said. I can reach in and just hit the key in 50 degree weather and it fires right up.
5.) I have yet to find the limit of this fuel.
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I hear ya on spending a $100 just to go cruising. What is the octane of e85 and What is this test you do? Do you do it right at the pump? My car is tuned on 110 octane and I have to drive to the ghetto (Flint) to get it locally. This seems better as there are 2 Meijer gas stations closer to me.
 
I think the big drawback to E85 is that it absorbs water like a sponge. So the older it is, the more water it will absorb. So the more a place sells, the fresher it will be. Which I think is why the stuff at Meijers stays good - they sell a ton of it.

-Geoff
 
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