Ecoboost diag help

mustangmike6996

mustangmike6996

Club Member
I'm currently on the road and my check engine MIL illuminated. P0299 Turbo underboost and P0016 Cam position sensor fault. Any advice before I get home and start diag in the cold weather?

It's a 2013 F150 3.5 Ecoboost with 66k miles.
 
has it become sluggish? Delay throttle response prior to setting the codes? When you clear the codes, how soon before they trigger the faults again? Could be a cam sensor, phaser, sloppy timing assembly [R&R: chain, guides, gears, & tensioner] .
I recall a conversation once that when the the dtc's were reset & trucked down to the dealer, the dealer ended up having it a long while as it ended up being the timing assembly needing replacement. I believe they had an ext warranty that covered it all.
 
P0016 I believe is the code typically set when the timing chains stretch/ fail and have rattle noise on startup. P0299 I have not seen many people post about.

Good luck tough. I have a 2013 as well and not impressed at all with the reliability. Had a rod knock type sounding noise coming from the top end 3,900 miles after I bought it and ended up replacing the engine under the dealer supplied warranty. It had like 123k on it at the time.
 
From a quick look, no loose connections or clamps. It was a little sluggish a week ago, felt like I was towing intermittently. No MIL at the time. I reset the TPS with a manual relearn. That didn't help. On my way up north my MIL popped. I stopped at AutoZone, they scanned it and cleared codes. DTCs returned after 60 miles. Feels like the wastegate is intermittently sticking
 
I am not sure about the gates/actuators on this specific engine, but a stuck open gate would create a boost leak and you would have an underboost fault. It would also cause boost to build slower dependent on how far stuck open it is.
If stuck closed, you'd overboost and it comes on like mad.
Sorry if I'm stating the obvious and you already knew these.
 
So, I finished my trip home from up north this morning. I have more time to type/explain:

A week or so ago, I was heading home from work and it was a pretty cold/windy night, the truck was struggling to stay at 70 MPH without downshifting to 5th gear. I would have to slowly apply more and more throttle to keep it above 55, Id get to 70 and shift to 6th gear then it started bogging again. I thought it was a really shitty/strong headwind. The issue went away for a day or 2. I came home, did the TPS relearn in the driveway (key cycle then slowly go to 100% throttle engine off, and let the pedal rapidly return to rest). No issue for a couple days. It starts up and runs fine for a little while then intermittently bogs. I made it 5 miles into a 250 mile trip on friday and it popped a MIL, I stopped at autozone and had it scanned (P0016/P0299) I babied it up north which sucked because it was trying to shift into 4/5th gear for most of the trip until I stopped at Birch Run for dinner. I got back on the road and it was fine until Roscommon. I got to the cottage and did a quick visual of all the hoses, clamps, wastegate actuators etc, nothing obvious. I disconnected the battery for 30 minutes and then drove it to Gaylord and cleared the MIL/DTCs at Autozone. On my trip home this morning, about 20 miles into it, the MIL came back for the P0016 and pending P0299 but i didnt have many issues with feeling underboost. I got home and was able to hook my scan tool up, nothing looks out of the ordinary from a quick glance at the data.

So I have been researching causes and options

P0299:
(as many have stated) check all connections
CAC air duct valve (BOV)- I need to pull the valve and check the diaphragm for tears
Wastegate actuators, check for play or sticking-I dont hear the oscillation that people on Youtube have recorded (I might be able to R/R these individually)
If all that checks out, then it could be a failing turbo. I did see 177 kPa (25 PSI) of boost at 100% throttle with my scanner but I couldnt duplicate the bog at the time so I will continue to drive with the scan tool hooked up for me to monitor data

P0016 (this is the shitty issue) cam sen 1 bank A and crank phase
Possible timing chain stretch- thats about all I can find on this so far which everyone has paid $$$$ for repairs

They recommend replacing all 4 VCT phasers with the primary and secondary chains as well as incidentals and it is something like a 12 hr job which comes out to $2-3k (I would do this myself but my garage is full so I'm weighing out options top hold the repair off until spring)

I plan on hunting down some of the powertrain guys I work with tomorrow to pick their brains about these engines.
 
The timing chain stretch will have a very audible rattle/ marble noise on a cold start up. The tensioners are oil pressure driven so on start up with stretched chains they do no have anything tightening the slack until oil pressure gets to them 2-3 seconds after start up. I've had to replace them on an Ecoboost Flex to the tune of $2,700. It didn't have the code but had the noise. From what I've read people seem to have gone quite a while with the code set with no issues before replacement.

Personally I think that your issue is from the P0299 and P0016 is just a secondary un-related code for this issue, but I could be totally wrong.
 
If I am reading your post right, you are comparing the real-time boost PSI to what the engine should be receiving?

Look for signs of a blown intercooler. A row of damaged fins from road debris, cracked end tanks [especially if they're plastic] , a clamp that has failed; The clamp may appear good, but when checked with a wrench, it might reveal an issue.
 
CruisnCobra said:
The timing chain stretch will have a very audible rattle/ marble noise on a cold start up. The tensioners are oil pressure driven so on start up with stretched chains they do no have anything tightening the slack until oil pressure gets to them 2-3 seconds after start up. I've had to replace them on an Ecoboost Flex to the tune of $2,700. It didn't have the code but had the noise. From what I've read people seem to have gone quite a while with the code set with no issues before replacement.

Personally I think that your issue is from the P0299 and P0016 is just a secondary un-related code for this issue, but I could be totally wrong.
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That's what I'm hoping for, I don't have any noise or at startup, cold, warm, idle or high load


Beigg said:
If I am reading your post right, you are comparing the real-time boost PSI to what the engine should be receiving?

Look for signs of a blown intercooler. A row of damaged fins from road debris, cracked end tanks [especially if they're plastic] , a clamp that has failed; The clamp may appear good, but when checked with a wrench, it might reveal an issue.
Click to expand...

I put a socket to all the clamps and they are all tight, I yanked on all of the tubing, nothing came loose. I'm still running my inspection mirror around to make sure one isn't cracked. Catalytic converter temps are equal (or very close) at all times so plugged exhaust is unlikely. I looked over the IC and didn't see any cracks. I'm probably going to hook my vac/pressure gauge up for a manual reading and bounce it off of the MAP readings.
 
I pulled the BOV to check the diaphragm, that was good but the green oring looks like it was rolled and cut during assembly. The truck has never been serviced (other than the maintenance that I perform) and ive owned it since it had like 10 miles. I lubed the oring and reinstalled the BOV.

I sprayed the wastegate actuator rods with penetrating oil. The passenger side is almost impossible to move unless I push it with a screwdriver, the driver side can be freely moved for a full stroke with the tension of the diaphragm. I'm going to screw around with some trucks at work to see which one is correct.

I did notice a oil seep from either the timing cover or between the block and cyl head. I cleaned it up and will monitor it. I might add UV dye to the oil.
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I drove to and from work (28 miles each way) and I still have the hesitation above 60, which happened after work on the way home after 9 hours of sitting. The boost builds slow at low speeds and squeals when it vents. The underboost DTC is clear. I have the pinpoint test for wastegate diag (need to pressurize the diaphragm to see full movement). I'll hook up the mityvac tomorrow. Im Wondering if I don't see this issue on my way to work because I go to the gym (2 mile round trip) before work every day then head to work with a partially warmed up truck after a key cycle. If this runs fine on my way to work but acts up on my return trip, I'm going to pull over and key cycle to see if it affects driveability.

Unfortunately, the P0016 cam/crank phase DTC came back after 30 miles. I am seeing the spark advance between 10 and 40 degrees. My Microscan won't read phaser or crank angle. From all of the forum research I have done, this seems to be timing chain stretch. I'm hoping to find a single instance where there's a different outcome.

Are there any Motown Muscle members who are Ford dealership techs? I want to use an IDS scan tool for PID tests and have questions about the last DTC mentioned.
 
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Sounds like a similar issue a buddy of mine had with his ecoboost truck around the same mileage. I'll ask if he remembers what it was. No guarantees he will know exactly what was done or what the issue was, he isnt a gear head.

Edit: He said a turbo had to be replaced, probably BOV too as it was making odd noises.
 
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mustangmike6996 said:
Just pulled the passenger side cam cover, there's a ton of slack in the chain.
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You are making me nervous. My transmission in my truck blew up a week after starting a new job. We are using my buddies (we ride in to work together) 2012 ecoboost f150 and he has about 95,000 miles and is having hesitation issues and engine miss issues. His truck also sounds bad on start up like there is loose sheet metal or something. Now you have me worried his truck is going to break lol
 
camaromann said:
You are making me nervous. My transmission in my truck blew up a week after starting a new job. We are using my buddies (we ride in to work together) 2012 ecoboost f150 and he has about 95,000 miles and is having hesitation issues and engine miss issues. His truck also sounds bad on start up like there is loose sheet metal or something. Now you have me worried his truck is going to break lol
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That has got to be the chain and phasers. If he has about 1-3 hours, (depending on skill) he can pull the pass side cam cover and take a look. I was grab the chain on the intake cam and feel all the slack, then I was able to peek at the tensioner to see that it was 4-6 clicks out. It's got as much stretch as a small block with 200k miles.
 
I plan to keep the truck and do the repairs myself, parts are about $200. It's a 9.2hr warranty job so I'd assume 14 hours customer pay. Not sure what labor rates are now but I'd assume they're every bit of $120/hr.

The low boost is still a head scratcher. I'll do the chain then clear the fault and adaptive learn before I get back into boost diag.

As for your buddies misfires, look at CAC tube moisture. Some ppl drill a small hole in the tube at the bottom to drain. Take a look on YouTube.
 
mustangmike6996 said:
I plan to keep the truck and do the repairs myself, parts are about $200. It's a 9.2hr warranty job so I'd assume 14 hours customer pay. Not sure what labor rates are now but I'd assume they're every bit of $120/hr.

The low boost is still a head scratcher. I'll do the chain then clear the fault and adaptive learn before I get back into boost diag.

As for your buddies misfires, look at CAC tube moisture. Some ppl drill a small hole in the tube at the bottom to drain. Take a look on YouTube.
Click to expand...

He is not mechanically inclined at all lol. I'll let him know what you are going through and what you found out though. We will see if hes just going to keep driving and chancing it, or get it fixed. Thanks
 
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