dual stage nos ????????????

[dante1120]

Just curious, why do you guys feel that individual cylinder control is so important? I can see if you're heads up class racing or something and you have to go .001 better than the next guy with the exact same parts or something, but for most of us on this board, I don't see why it's necessary. I've never used any of that stuff, never once had a car tuned near the edge (except back in the day with a KB and 300deg ACT),

and I've run from 13's to 8s at all different boost levels.

I know the intake flows different depending on the cylinder, but I've never had a car that was on edge enough to matter.

At least you admit you run in the 8s.LOL

 

[BLKHAWK]

Just curious, why do you guys feel that individual cylinder control is so important? I can see if you're heads up class racing or something and you have to go .001 better than the next guy with the exact same parts or something, but for most of us on this board, I don't see why it's necessary. I've never used any of that stuff, never once had a car tuned near the edge (except back in the day with a KB and 300deg ACT), and I've run from 13's to 8s at all different boost levels.

I know the intake flows different depending on the cylinder, but I've never had a car that was on edge enough to matter.

I've had to use it with a car that had a piss pour intake and a big plate on it. and that individual cyl correction was done with factory engine management.

 

[BLKHAWK]

If I ran nitrous or N/A I'd definitely still run a carb. I held out as long as I could to switch to EFI, I think it was in like 93 I finally switched, and only because I got addicted to boost. It's the best way with boost.

EFI is a lot more expensive though, the fuel pumps, regulators, injectors, throttle bodies, rails, computer, and tuning all add up.

fuel pumps and regulators are needed wether its efi or carbed, injectors and TB and computer are offset by the price of a good carb and dis box. tuning is required with a carb or efi.

 

[johnquick302]

true story. now tell me JQ how do you adjust individual cylinder trims on a carb mtr. with a dis 6 box?

your dis 7 has EFI technology. you can pull timing, use traction control, adjust individual cyl. etc.

I agree when pushing the edge plug reading is the only way, afr only gets you in the ballpark.

you can do it with jets. and i put 450hp through my 360ci motor and didnt pull any timing out of any cyl. i pulled the same amount from every one.

 

[johnquick302]

I've had to use it with a car that had a piss pour intake and a big plate on it. and that individual cyl correction was done with factory engine management.

then that is your bad, get a better intake. ive dont quite a few carbs with plates and sprayed alot through them. never had to pull timing out of 1 cyl or the other. if the corners were detonating i pull 1 deg out of everything to make up for it. how fast was the car you are talking about? i hope your not basing your opinions on a 11sec car.

 

[Fryguy302]

At least you admit you run in the 8s.LOL

8.90's are stil 8s!

I've had to use it with a car that had a piss pour intake and a big plate on it. and that individual cyl correction was done with factory engine management.

What intake was that piss poor? Why not just put a better intake on it? Was it an EFI intake? If so, that's another reason to run a carburator.

fuel pumps and regulators are needed wether its efi or carbed, injectors and TB and computer are offset by the price of a good carb and dis box. tuning is required with a carb or efi.

Yeah but they are cheaper, at least at some power levels. A carb/nitrous car can go a long way with a mallory 140 and a holly blue. An efi car needs a real pump to go as fast as that setup can go. Injectors and TB are way more expensive than a good carb, at least last time I checked. Plus the intakes themselves are more expensive aren't they?

 

[Fryguy302]

But trust me I think EFI/Boost is the way to go, that's why I did it. I just wouldn't do it for a nitrous car.

 

[johnquick302]

But trust me I think EFI/Boost is the way to go, that's why I did it. I just wouldn't do it for a nitrous car.

exactly what i said. with boost its more important for the engine management then it is with nitrous since your tuning everything with the nitrous through the jets and timing.

 

[BLKHAWK]

8.90's are stil 8s!



What intake was that piss poor? Why not just put a better intake on it? Was it an EFI intake? If so, that's another reason to run a carburator.



Yeah but they are cheaper, at least at some power levels. A carb/nitrous car can go a long way with a mallory 140 and a holly blue. An efi car needs a real pump to go as fast as that setup can go. Injectors and TB are way more expensive than a good carb, at least last time I checked. Plus the intakes themselves are more expensive aren't they?

It was an lt1 intake, 2 walbros wont keep up with a holley blue? there s.d 55#s for sale on this board for 150.00 If I was gonna build a big efi nitrous car id use a carb'd intake

 

[BLKHAWK]

then that is your bad, get a better intake. ive dont quite a few carbs with plates and sprayed alot through them. never had to pull timing out of 1 cyl or the other. if the corners were detonating i pull 1 deg out of everything to make up for it. how fast was the car you are talking about? i hope your not basing your opinions on a 11sec car.

Exactly it was my bad I couldn't afford to build the car the way I wanted. the car i"m basing my opinions off made 700rwhp through a th400

 

[BLKHAWK]

I believe the argument is whats faster efi or carb? an engine's requirement's are what they are. I'm not knocking carbs, there a lot more fast carb cars than there are efi cars. I believe this is the way it is because a lot of guys can turn screws, but the guys who can dial in an efi car are far and few between.

 

[Fryguy302]

It was an lt1 intake, 2 walbros wont keep up with a holley blue? there s.d 55#s for sale on this board for 150.00 If I was gonna build a big efi nitrous car id use a carb'd intake

Well normally you use the blue just for the nitrous and the mallory or something for the motor when using a carb setup.

I'm not arguing really, just debating it the way I remember it last time I thought about it. I'm sure you probably know more about an EFI/nitrous combo than I do, but we just had to make these decisions in 07 with the Pinks car. Tell me how you'd have gone that fast with EFI for that money?

That was a 351w, vic jr intake, big shot plate, mallory 140 I think, and a holly blue.

Now for efi the way you describe it, we'd have to convert the victor for injector bungs, buy fuel rails, buy a GOOD pump, buy big injectors, buy engine management, etc. To use factory EFI we'd need a custom chip and big ass MAF meter also.

If you used an EFI intake it would cost more than a vic jr, PLUS the nitrous distribution would suck. Keep in mind that car went 9.40s, so the EFI components would have to support that.

 

[BLKHAWK]

Well normally you use the blue just for the nitrous and the mallory or something for the motor when using a carb setup.

I'm not arguing really, just debating it the way I remember it last time I thought about it. I'm sure you probably know more about an EFI/nitrous combo than I do, but we just had to make these decisions in 07 with the Pinks car. Tell me how you'd have gone that fast with EFI for that money?

That was a 351w, vic jr intake, big shot plate, mallory 140 I think, and a holly blue.

Now for efi the way you describe it, we'd have to convert the victor for injector bungs, buy fuel rails, buy a GOOD pump, buy big injectors, buy engine management, etc. To use factory EFI we'd need a custom chip and big ass MAF meter also.

If you used an EFI intake it would cost more than a vic jr, PLUS the nitrous distribution would suck. Keep in mind that car went 9.40s, so the EFI components would have to support that.

what size injector would that motor require?
what carb was on it? and u adjusted the dist. for timing correct?


I'd make the inj. bungs 20.00
2 walbros 180.00
EEC 5 ...a stock maf will support that engine, I do believe
sct track pack 500.00

 

[Sean]

Well since you pose the question.

1 duraspark ford distributor locked out. $50
1 GM 7 pin Ignition control module $50
1 TPI 1227730 TPI ECM $50
1 Moates adapter $35
1 29c256 eprom $5
1 Donor harness from JY $75

As for injectors and stuff. Depends on how badas the motor was but I figure that was a 550hp motor so a set of cheap 38pph injectors for SC 3800 could have been used $200 and fial rail stock is like $50 for both rails and bungs are $10 each.

Gut a holley 4bbl Carb for use as a TB $100 for a 850 or so.

Maybe $700 total without really trying to skimp to much could be done for less however with some serious pick a part scrounging.

Knowledge to make it all work. Priceless.

as for ignition digital 7 with multi retards. Program the EFI for best power on motor tune the digital 7 for nitrous.

You could also have use a 4bbl holley TBI with 90pph injectors in it and a cheap TPI fuel pump and had plenty of fuel volume. those TBI's can be had for 200-400 and would save the cost of injectors. Like a carb without all the extra modification. A few mods to a 1227747 ECM out of a fullsize pickup and it runs those TBI's with no problems.

Just throwing ideas out there.

It can be done but it requires alot of knowledge of electronics and GM EFI systems to be made to work. theoretically SD ford systems could be made to work as well using almost all shelf ford parts.

You do not need cylinder trims but they can make life alot easier at times.

Well normally you use the blue just for the nitrous and the mallory or something for the motor when using a carb setup.

I'm not arguing really, just debating it the way I remember it last time I thought about it. I'm sure you probably know more about an EFI/nitrous combo than I do, but we just had to make these decisions in 07 with the Pinks car. Tell me how you'd have gone that fast with EFI for that money?

That was a 351w, vic jr intake, big shot plate, mallory 140 I think, and a holly blue.

Now for efi the way you describe it, we'd have to convert the victor for injector bungs, buy fuel rails, buy a GOOD pump, buy big injectors, buy engine management, etc. To use factory EFI we'd need a custom chip and big ass MAF meter also.

If you used an EFI intake it would cost more than a vic jr, PLUS the nitrous distribution would suck. Keep in mind that car went 9.40s, so the EFI components would have to support that.

 

[Fryguy302]

what size injector would that motor require?
what carb was on it? and u adjusted the dist. for timing correct?

I can't remember it wasn't a dominator or anything crazy though. The distributor was adjusted for timing. I think 42's would support that motor easy, but the $150 price you mention above is a hell of a deal for big injectors.

I'd make the inj. bungs 20.00
2 walbros 180.00
EEC 5 ...a stock maf will support that engine, I do believe
sct track pack 500.00

OK, but you realize that not everyone can drill/fit/weld bungs in an aluminum intake though, right? That's a few hundred bucks worth of work at most machine shops.

Then we'd have to buy an eec V and harness and MAF (at least a few hundred) and an intake elbow and a throttle body. And then somebody would have to figure out how to strip an EEC V harness and install it in an old T-bird. Hell aren't you selling a TB and elbow like this for like $400 on this board?

 

[BLKHAWK]

I can't remember it wasn't a dominator or anything crazy though. The distributor was adjusted for timing. I think 42's would support that motor easy, but the $150 price you mention above is a hell of a deal for big injectors.



OK, but you realize that not everyone can drill/fit/weld bungs in an aluminum intake though, right? That's a few hundred bucks worth of work at most machine shops.

Then we'd have to buy an eec V and harness and MAF (at least a few hundred) and an intake elbow and a throttle body. And then somebody would have to figure out how to strip an EEC V harness and install it in an old T-bird. Hell aren't you selling a TB and elbow like this for like $400 on this board?

yes sir I am selling a T.B and elbow but it could be done cheaper than that.
If you can build a 9.40 car simple wiring and welding shouldn't be much of a problem. keep in mind I'm trying to do this with ford engine management. as sean has stated this could be done much much cheaper with factory gm parts
and some knowledge.

 

[fogged10]

street car! over a 1000 miles hauling a trailer and ran as quick as 7.64! RUNNING A CARB SET UP!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDIdGatEykI"]YouTube - Ride along with Drag Week 2007 Winner[/ame]

 

[Fryguy302]

Gut a holley 4bbl Carb for use as a TB $100 for a 850 or so.

How? What do you do about the TPS?

yes sir I am selling a T.B and elbow but it could be done cheaper than that.
If you can build a 9.40 car simple wiring and welding shouldn't be much of a problem. keep in mind I'm trying to do this with ford engine management. as sean has stated this could be done much much cheaper with factory gm parts
and some knowledge.

I didn't build that 9.40 car but I'm pretty sure it didn't require the knowledge it would take to set up an EEC harness, especially an EEC V one.

And again, how would you tune any of these? Especially the Ford SD setup. I guess that SCT track pack you referenced earlier would do it if it was the newer stuff.

 

[1bad Lad]

Well since you pose the question.

1 duraspark ford distributor locked out. $50
1 GM 7 pin Ignition control module $50
1 TPI 1227730 TPI ECM $50
1 Moates adapter $35
1 29c256 eprom $5
1 Donor harness from JY $75

As for injectors and stuff. Depends on how badas the motor was but I figure that was a 550hp motor so a set of cheap 38pph injectors for SC 3800 could have been used $200 and fial rail stock is like $50 for both rails and bungs are $10 each.

Gut a holley 4bbl Carb for use as a TB $100 for a 850 or so.

Maybe $700 total without really trying to skimp to much could be done for less however with some serious pick a part scrounging.

Knowledge to make it all work. Priceless.

as for ignition digital 7 with multi retards. Program the EFI for best power on motor tune the digital 7 for nitrous.

You could also have use a 4bbl holley TBI with 90pph injectors in it and a cheap TPI fuel pump and had plenty of fuel volume. those TBI's can be had for 200-400 and would save the cost of injectors. Like a carb without all the extra modification. A few mods to a 1227747 ECM out of a fullsize pickup and it runs those TBI's with no problems.

Just throwing ideas out there.

It can be done but it requires alot of knowledge of electronics and GM EFI systems to be made to work. theoretically SD ford systems could be made to work as well using almost all shelf ford parts.

You do not need cylinder trims but they can make life alot easier at times.

oh damn good thinkin sean.....i don't think anyone can argue with for the money....and hey ya'll can even still use one of them fuel leakin carburators.....wouldn't that be some shit....that would confuse the shit outta some people....lol would look like some smart dumb hillbilly put that shit together......lmao i'd put some decoy fuel lines right up to the carb just to fuck with poeple....

 

[Sean]

TPS isn't needed in a drag car. But you could mount a D sweep off of a TBI truck TBI pretty easily.

You can tune the TPI systems with many of the available freeware programs out there like tunerpro.

It takes a tremendous amount of knowledge to do something like what I mentioned but it isn't that difficult to do once you understand the basics of how everything works.

the 4bbl Holley 950 cfm TBI would have been my prefernce for the motor in the Tbird. first off becuase it uses a standard hooley carb flange. Secondly it doesn't require any fabrication to make it work outside of 2 fuel line with almost every popular intake manifold out there and it would have been alot cheaper then a port system. it would also mate up well to the factory throttle cable using standard carb linkage parts.

the only caveat to using the holley TBI is which ecm to use and then modifying the injector drivers to run the extra 2 injectors. It only requires a changed in the sense resistor for the peak hold chip in the ecm and a better transistor as well as 2 jumper wires for the extra current it would draw. Outside of that it is pretty easy and the pcm mods are covered on the thirdgen.org diy prom message board area.

again though the knowledge of how to make it all work is where the hidden costs are if you do not have it. but i will say it is out there if you look.

How? What do you do about the TPS?



I didn't build that 9.40 car but I'm pretty sure it didn't require the knowledge it would take to set up an EEC harness, especially an EEC V one.

And again, how would you tune any of these? Especially the Ford SD setup. I guess that SCT track pack you referenced earlier would do it if it was the newer stuff.