Apparently, you can't fix stupid in Camp Mustang...

[98 Camaro]

TTT for Tim.

thanks, but I still stand by my previous statement.

From a dead dig with a garden variety driver the ZL1 will beat the GT500.....simply due to the automatic.

Now if we are talking Evan Smith is driving on a prepped track and icing the intake, then my statement doesn't apply.

 

[98 Camaro]

And the 550-horse Shelby? The GT500 struggled off the line, proof that power means little if it can't be fully utilized. "A tough car to launch, with tons of power at low rpm," says road test editor Scott Mortara. Thus, the Mustang, with times of 4.1 to 60 and 12.4 at 115.8 in the quarter, put down the slowest -

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...san_gtr_comparison/viewall.html#ixzz1kIVKa3cp

 

[Fryguy302]

thanks, but I still stand by my previous statement.

From a dead dig with a garden variety driver the ZL1 will beat the GT500.....simply due to the automatic.

Now if we are talking Evan Smith is driving on a prepped track and icing the intake, then my statement doesn't apply.

There are the numbers above....you have bonehead journalists driving both cars, and between the current version GT500 and the Zl1, it appears to be anybody's race.

Now they are adding *100HP* to the GT500, and you don't think it will be quicker? Are you serious?

I'm not saying iced intake and evan smith, but I'm talking a good driver who can drive. Back in 1993 the auto rags could only get mid 14s out of a 93 Cobra, but mine ran 13.87 at detroit dragway bone stock on the stock 17" Gatorbacks. A real driver in a 2013 GT 500 will stomp a mudhole in the ass of a ZL1.

Now my only thought is if I should raid my racing budget to buy one and prove it :lol:

 

[91trunk]

There are the numbers above....you have bonehead journalists driving both cars, and between the current version GT500 and the Zl1, it appears to be anybody's race.

Now they are adding *100HP* to the GT500, and you don't think it will be quicker? Are you serious?

I'm not saying iced intake and evan smith, but I'm talking a good driver who can drive. Back in 1993 the auto rags could only get mid 14s out of a 93 Cobra, but mine ran 13.87 at detroit dragway bone stock on the stock 17" Gatorbacks. A real driver in a 2013 GT 500 will stomp a mudhole in the ass of a ZL1.

Now my only thought is if I should raid my racing budget to buy one and prove it :lol:

So who was driving? As you said a "good driver"

 

[Fryguy302]

So who was driving? As you said a "good driver"

I was driving. I am the best stick driver in the country. Also, that car was in MM&FF's Cobra shootout where it beat all the other stock ones, including the new 1996 model

 

[91trunk]

I was driving. I am the best stick driver in the country. Also, that car was in MM&FF's Cobra shootout where it beat all the other stock ones, including the new 1996 model

According to Sa-show it's been said when he shifts a 5 speed people assume the car is an automatic. :lol:

 

[Fryguy302]

According to Sa-show it's been said when he shifts a 5 speed people assume the car is an automatic. :lol:

When people saw my cobra go down the track they said "who would put a liberty in a new stock Cobra?" :roll:

 

[91trunk]

:lol:

 

[98 Camaro]

When people saw my cobra go down the track they said "who would put a liberty in a new stock Cobra?" :roll:

your not helping your previous arguement....

 

[4 cam tbird]

I only look at pics over there. I usually browse the tech. Also a fan of SVTperformance. Both are good forums.

That might be the first time I've ever seen or heard anyone say that SVTP is a good forum. And the bad things are usually coming from Ford guys.

 

[4 cam tbird]

Automobile Magazine just ran 12.6@116 and 0-60 in 4.3 in a ZL1. Three tests, 12.6@116, 12.1@117, 12.3@119. I'm sure the team behind 2013 GT500 is quaking in their boots. :lol:

Was it a manual or auto? There is a huge difference betweent he two in a 1/4 mile on the V's in favor of the auto.

 

[4 cam tbird]

The Z06 test was even more comical, but the engineer that did that one has a 0.15s shift time, he's an animal.

Was that Glenn?

 

[DBK]

Was it a manual or auto?

I don't think they mentioned but there's a picture of a guy driving a manual, so that's what I would assume.

 

[lucky7]

Automobile Magazine just ran 12.6@116 and 0-60 in 4.3 in a ZL1. Three tests, 12.6@116, 12.1@117, 12.3@119. I'm sure the team behind 2013 GT500 is quaking in their boots. :lol:

C&D tested an SLP, ZL1 convertible. http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2012-slp-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-convertible-road-test-review
12.30 @ 119mph, and it has 750hp.

C&D also tested the new MB C63 AMG coupe. Automatic, within 200 lbs of the camaro, and 270 LESS hp. 12.10 @ 120mph.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2012-mercedes-benz-c63-amg-coupe-review

i realize that the SLP is not a regular ZL1, but either the numbers are significantly inflated, or it spins for days. but a stock one should not be just as fast as a supercharged 7L with 750/730 numbers. it doesn't add up.


IMO, the GT500 and ZL1 are comparable cars in many ways. i think in many cases it comes down to preference in looks and brand loyalty. i don't know the price differences or availability though.

 

[WhiteHawk]

Here is where Al is getting a lot of his ammo. Right from the GT500 owners manual. Anyone have a first draft of the 2013 yet?

As you can see, the 2012 Ford Mustang GT500 Owner's Manual says:

"In the event the vehicle is intended for track use, and the loss of warranty coverage is not of concern, the following vehicle durability modifications are required:
• Install transmission oil cooler. Permanent damage to the transmission will result if the vehicle is subjected to competition conditions without installation of a transmission oil cooler.
• Install rear differential cooler. Permanent damage to the rear differential will result if the vehicle is subjected to competition conditions without installation of a differential cooler.
• Install Ford Racing brake cooling duct kit. Excessive brake wear will occur if the vehicle is subjected to competition conditions without installation of a brake cooling kit.
• Replace the rear axle lubricant after the first 1 hour of high-speed operation or if the vehicle is subjected to competition conditions and every 12 hours thereafter."

 

[4 cam tbird]

Those things now appear to be available but possibly not standard?
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/11/15/2013-ford-shelby-gt500-delivers-650-hp-and-200-mph-straight-from/

 

[Overboost]

I believe everything except the brake kit is offered as a factory option. Smart move. Not everyone is going to track it, so people don't have to pay for the options they don't want.

 

[4 cam tbird]

Helps the initial buyers that may not need it, hurts the resale for those that got it. Those things are things that some people aren't going to buy a used one without, but aren't generally going to increase the resale price over one that doesn't have them. Was very frustrating selling the Cobalt SS with the limited slip option that you pay extra for but adds nothing to resale value.

 

[WhiteHawk]

First off, you guys once again crack me up how fast you rally to justify the need of a bunch of options to keep up with a stock car (and the brake kit is still not covered). That was Al's point. ZL1=turnkey racecar. GT500=turnkey dyno queen. You want to race it? That is going to cost extra. That is the point Al is making - becuase when you have to add options to the Mustang to keep up with a ZL1, than the ZL1 has already won. ZL1 is the total package out of the box.

And if this is all the better comebacks you can think of, he is spot on with his remarks. Maybe the 2013 will be different? This is the kind of stuff Ford can still make standard, and maybe they will.

I believe everything except the brake kit is offered as a factory option. Smart move. Not everyone is going to track it, so people don't have to pay for the options they don't want.

Yea, like all the old ladies lining up to buy GT500's? Please. Who is going to buy that car and not want that kind of stuff? Can you see someebody going into the showroom saying "I will take the 650 HP top dog Mustang but I don't want the options that make it race ready."

Helps the initial buyers that may not need it, hurts the resale for those that got it. Those things are things that some people aren't going to buy a used one without, but aren't generally going to increase the resale price over one that doesn't have them. Was very frustrating selling the Cobalt SS with the limited slip option that you pay extra for but adds nothing to resale value.

Resale value? Camaro is #1 in it's class. I doubt that is going to change with the ZL1 added to the lineup.

-Geoff

 

[Overboost]

First off, you guys once again crack me up how fast you rally to justify the need of a bunch of options to keep up with a stock car (and the brake kit is still not covered). That was Al's point. ZL1=turnkey racecar. GT500=turnkey dyno queen. You want to race it? That is going to cost extra. That is the point Al is making - becuase when you have to add options to the Mustang to keep up with a ZL1, than the ZL1 has already won. ZL1 is the total package out of the box.

And if this is all the better comebacks you can think of, he is spot on with his remarks. Maybe the 2013 will be different? This is the kind of stuff Ford can still make standard, and maybe they will.


Yea, like all the old ladies lining up to buy GT500's? Please. Who is going to buy that car and not want that kind of stuff? Can you see someebody going into the showroom saying "I will take the 650 HP top dog Mustang but I don't want the options that make it race ready."

-Geoff

From what I understand, it doesn't need any options to keep up in a straight line. On a track, I don't know if you'd need the Perf. Pack or not to hold its own. Point is, there are people who don't want any options and only want the biggest, baddest muscle car out there. Drag racers aren't going to check all the options, and I wouldn't be surprised if the hardcore guys take stuff off the ZL1 to lighten it up a bit. There's no denying what they've done with the ZL1 isn't impressive, just the manner in which they are trying to market it is a bit obnoxious and classless. I'm glad that Pericak and the Ford team have taken the high road and will let the car do the talking. I'm sure SVT will let more info go as it gets closer to launch.