Another home HVAC question

[mustangmike6996]

I got a call tonight from the wife that the house was at 62 degrees and the furnace wasn't running. I walked through some basic stuff over the phone, after doing a power cycle on the switch on the furnace it started up and continued to heat the house. It's been an hour, I'm home now and it seems to be cycling like normal, blue flame and no CO detector warnings.

Anything simple that would cause this?

 

[CMYZ28]

Check/clean the flame sensor is an easy start.

 

[TWOBEERS]

Check/clean the flame sensor is an easy start.

what he said.

 

[mustangmike6996]

oddly enough, it looks like the batteries in the thermostat were low and causing the issue.

 

[mustangmike6996]

Well, after 10 days the furnace is back to the usual. I'm suspecting a thermostat. It gets to 5* below setpoint, when cycling power it intermittently buzzed (capacitor/transformer buzzing/ring)

If you pull the faceplate from the wall it'll continue to buzz. When plugging it back into to wall the furnace will cycle on and off for a 1-2 degree temp change.

If I jump the red wire with the white the furnace starts immediately and stays running. Going to Lowrs in the morning

 

[mustangmike6996]

Furnace stopped working again.

Found out it is a failing pressure switch and a cracked gas block. Repair is $1200

They recommended a new furnace.

High efficiency (Amana P/N AMRC 80017 96%) for 3200 installed
Normal (Trane P/N XR80010017 80%) for $2100 installed.

Any recommendations one which route to take? Does the extra $1000 warrant a return on investment?

 

[Siegel1719]

Really depends on the size of the house. Figure out a rough estimate of your gas usage for the year and figure a 8-10% total savings. If over the course of several years it adds up to more then $1100 then its worth it. I would say it likely is unless you keep the house super cold and its a small house.

Prices dont sound too horrible. Get a few quotes if you can.

 

[mustangmike6996]

Its about 1300 sq ft. We usually keep the house set to 68/69 degrees in the winter.

Looking at furnace prices, they seem to be between $1500-2000 depending on efficiency numbers. So that extra 500 or so is labor.

I will need to do the math to figure out the time of ROI.

 

[Falcon64]

I did this kind of work for many years and installed many different brands of furnaces. I had lots of issues with Amana products. Trane on the other hand is a very good furnace and so is payne and bryant. The only thing I recommend is if you get a trane a/c unit with it make sure you don't get the bur coil condensing unit. The outside coil is designed like a porcupine and its a bitch to clean especially in cotton wood season. Good luck

 

[mustangmike6996]

I did this kind of work for many years and installed many different brands of furnaces. I had lots of issues with Amana products. Trane on the other hand is a very good furnace and so is payne and bryant. The only thing I recommend is if you get a trane a/c unit with it make sure you don't get the bur coil condensing unit. The outside coil is designed like a porcupine and its a bitch to clean especially in cotton wood season. Good luck

Thanks,

We are not replacing the A/C unit at this time.

Do the prices sound fair? Does it seem like high labor charges, would you recommend installing it myself?

Any input on High Efficiency vs Standard Efficiency?

 

[Beigg]

Manufacturer may not honor any warranty claims if a certified/authorized installer isn't contracted for the replacement unit.

 

[Killjoy]

HVAC industry is very protectionist and anti-DIY, so just know that going in if that's the route you choose. If you need the freon evac/replaced from the system while doing a swap, that's going to be a problem. Also if you need any duct modifications, which you likely will where it interfaces with the unit. You can find Goodman units for sale online, but they are cheap low-end units.

HVAC industry also operates like the auto industry in that many brands come off of the same assembly line, with only stickers and badging being the difference. United Tech makes Carrier, Bryant, Comfortmaker, Heil, etc. Trane & American Standard are the same. Rheem & Ruud are the same. Amana & Goodman are the same. Only major differences are usually stickers, brand recognition/eliteness/marketing, and possibly warranty length.

I'd go with a 95% or higher, modulating (or min 2 stage) unit from one of the better manufacturers, but not their top end brand. So I'd go with a Bryant (not Carrier $), American Standard (not Trane $) or Rheem. I would not touch an Amana or Goodman unless you're gonna sell the house soon. Lennox is good too, but usually costly.

You might want to consider what brand your AC is and matching it, since you're not replacing the AC side of things.

I went modulating and you'd be amazed just how quiet your house becomes in the winter. No regrets.

 

[mustangmike6996]

I've had 5 quotes with multiple options.

The cost of the 95%+ HE units are $1000-2000 more. My calculations show it'll take 15-20 years to recoup cost. So I'm looking at 80% units. I think I've narrowed it down. To 2.

Opt1
The Trane XR80080010017
Finzel heating quoted $2100 (-the $140 service call) installed. Its pretty much a replacement unit to what I already have. Downfall is a 10yr warranty. Not sure if heat exchanger has longer warr

Opt2
Randazzo quoted $2800 installed (after rebates) for:
Lennox ML180UH070P36A. 20 yr warranty on the heat exchanger an 10yr parts. Also has multi speed blower.



I'm leaning towards option 2. Seems like most heat exchanger failures occur after the 10yr mark. Is the multi speed blower worth the extra money?


Edit***

Did a bit more research, if the Trane is a XR80 model (fairly certain it is) it has a 20 yr heat exchanger warr and a multi speed blower as well. If that's the case, Id be at the $2100 mark

 

[DRAG-ULA]

Who are you getting the quotes from? My furnace is old and it's in the back of my mind every winter. I'm thinking about replacing it on principle. My house is only 900 sq feet, and I keep it at 65-67 over the winter. So I'd get an 80%.

 

[mustangmike6996]

We keep our house at 68 in the winter. Its about 1300-1400 sq ft.

So far we've had quotes from Finzel (seems to be the cheapest) Randazzo, Home Depot(contractor), Great Dane and a few phone quotes.

 

[dline]

Who are you getting the quotes from? My furnace is old and it's in the back of my mind every winter. I'm thinking about replacing it on principle. My house is only 900 sq feet, and I keep it at 65-67 over the winter. So I'd get an 80%.

John my dad just had his done a few months ago, I think he was pretty happy with the price, I will ask him

 

[CruisnCobra]

Nothing really technically important to add, but in my area Randazzo is the Costco installer. So maybe you could get the 10% Coscto cash back if your member.

 

[Killjoy]

If people are giving you quotes without coming onsite for a Man J calculation, I'd question the install quality you're going to get.

Multistage or modulating furnaces are a luxury most don't understand until they have one, then don't. They keep the temp of your house more consistent than a 1/2 stage, and run dead silent. When I visit family with 1/2 stage units and hear the air kick on, I feel like I'm talking over a hairdryer at times.

 

[mustangmike6996]

If people are giving you quotes without coming onsite for a Man J calculation, I'd question the install quality you're going to get.

Multistage or modulating furnaces are a luxury most don't understand until they have one, then don't. They keep the temp of your house more consistent than a 1/2 stage, and run dead silent. When I visit family with 1/2 stage units and hear the air kick on, I feel like I'm talking over a hairdryer at times.

The phone estimates were our request. We ran out of time to have more in-home estimates.

I understand the fan speed modulation is nice and effective, the systems with the variable speed are $2k higher. I could see if it were closer in price to the lower priced units but that puts me at double the price of the Trane.

 

[Falcon64]

Buy the high efficiency and spend the money. The 80% units are not a sealed combustion system and this leaves the flame sensor and ignitor exposed to dust. This will cause issues and repairs. Plus the inducer motors are also not the same quality. If you go cheap you will lose all your savings in repair costs.

The heat exchanger warranty is really not all that big of a deal. What goes out is the
Electrical parts like the inducer motor or the circuit boards. Those are high dollar repairs.

Not saying all but most hvac companies wont sell you electrical parts to DYI. The reason is because people wire the shit wrong and blow up a $300 circuut board and they end up in small claims court defending themselves.

Doing your research is good looks like you are on top of it but if you plan on staying there a long tine invest tge money in a quality system. There is nothing more annoying than dealing with hvac break downs. And they always break at the worst times like Christmas day.