Tankless Hot Water Heater

[NVR2FST]

I know some people on here have them. My current water heater just started leaking so I need to start considering my options. What kind of $$ are we talking for the tankless ones - installed and cash and carry? Has anyone installed one themselves? How bad was it? Anything special to consider? Have you been happy with the change? Any difference in the gas bill?

We have five people in our family and 3 1/2 bathrooms (incl. the basement which doesn't get used much).

Thanks in advance

 

[4Gas$]

There are reasons I’ve been told, why so few folks have these
tankless heaters installed, for one the price is WAY high and
they just don’t work like you think they do (should).

 

[Killjoy]

Without writing a novel here, I looked at them in 2008 and my brother just a couple months ago. We both decided to go with new, traditional WHs given the cost diff and minimal savings of tankless. As 4Gas$ mentions, the difference in purchase price is large... ~$500 for a traditional vs. $1-2k for the tankless. There's also a big difference in installation costs (or DIY effort) - lots of plumbing work (water & gas), new dedicated circuit, direct vent flue, etc. for the tankless. Whereas replacing with a new traditional is minimal effort... couple hours or a couple hundred $.

During the summer when my gas bill is pretty much just the WH, I'm at about $30/month. Even if the tankless could save me 50%, the payback is a very long time. I'm single no kids, so you could argue that there may be more saving for a family, but if you're using water more often, you're also minimizing the amount of time hot water is being maintained in the tank too.

I think if I were to build a new house, I'd probably opt for a tankless and have all of the plumbing done up front to accommodate. But it's a lot harder to justify in a retrofit. And even being a DIY'er, as well as having electrician and plumbing friends (free labor), it was still very hard to justify the $.

Lastly, Amazon does sell Rheem tankless and traditional tanks if you DIY. Pretty good prices.

 

[Killjoy]

Another good source: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...eaters/overview/tankless-water-heaters-ov.htm

Their hardware costs are a little cheaper then my experiences, but you can price it yourself.

Last thought - tankless have been popular in Europe for years. I would probably leans towards a brand that has a history and has been used over there vs. a newcomer.

 

[5_Slow]

One thing I've heard about them, other than the price and extra BS to retrofit, is that it can be kinda screwy when it actually supplies hot water. I had a friend install one, and he said that he has to run his faucets wide open to get hot water. IDK if there's any kind of adjustment, but that's something I've heard.

 

[Dr. Teeth]

I'd skip the tankless. Heard the same as above, very expensive, not as good at heating the water. If you're single then get a 40gal and quit.

I have 5 people in my house and we have 2 water heaters in series. The first is powered off of the boiler that heats my house, the other is electric and takes that water and boosts it a little. Bottom line is pretty much endless hot water. If you're single then skip the fancy stuff. And they're really easy to install. You'll need about $15 worth of plumbing stuff and can have it in in under an hour.

 

[SVT32VDOHC]

Ask Reiko. He has one that is pretty much the baddest one you can get.

A friend of mine just installed a small one in a house Saturday. He doesn't own the company, but he said it was one of the smaller/cheaper ones out there and it was still very expensive.

My take...if you are going to stay in that house for 20+ years I would do it. I was gonna say like 10+ but hell...I've been in my house for almost 7 years and it has FLOWN by. If I had one of those systems and moved after only being there 7 years, I'd be upset.

 

[JeffB]

My guys install them weekly. They are nice and work great when installed correct. I get alot of service calls because of DIY guys don't up size the gas line for the btus needed. They do require annual cleaning due to mineral building up from the huge amount of heat when they fire up. I didn't install one at my house, I put in a AO Smith Vertex 100,000 btu. 96% rated and never run out of hot water. They're more money but I like them.

 

[soap]

The bad part about tankless is not the price, it is the fact that they can not flow enough gpm (at the correct temperature) up here in Michigan where the ground water is roughly 42-44*. Without getting too geeky with specs the simple answer is just stick with a standard water heater for a whole house application.

If you need more info feel free to shoot me a PM.

--Joe

 

[DBK]

I had a tankless for 5-6 years and currently have them in a couple rentals.

It's not perfect in the temperature delivery, but I would put one in my current house if the prior owner hadn't just installed a new traditional one. I would gladly trade the slight variations in temp for the fact that you can take an endless hot shower. Nothing is more annoying than getting in the shower and having the hot water run out.

 

[Justindwright]

I had a tankless for 5-6 years and currently have them in a couple rentals.

It's not perfect in the temperature delivery, but I would put one in my current house if the prior owner hadn't just installed a new traditional one. I would gladly trade the slight variations in temp for the fact that you can take an endless hot shower. Nothing is more annoying than getting in the shower and having the hot water run out.

That would be one long shower! Can't say I've ever done that.

 

[soap]

but I would put one in my current house if the prior owner hadn't just installed a new traditional one. I would gladly trade the slight variations in temp for the fact that you can take an endless hot shower. Nothing is more annoying than getting in the shower and having the hot water run out.

Jeez how long of a shower do you take? We have a 80 gallon tank and our shower has 2 main heads and 4 massage heads that flow a total of 9.8gpm, I have been in there before for a half hour and the water temp never dropped.

--Joe

 

[DBK]

Probably more related to the fact we're constantly running dishwashers and washing machines. 4 people + 2 dogs + re-usable diapers = a lot of hot water being used.

 

[soap]

but I would put one in my current house if the prior owner hadn't just installed a new traditional one. I would gladly trade the slight variations in temp for the fact that you can take an endless hot shower. Nothing is more annoying than getting in the shower and having the hot water run out.

Jeez how long of a shower do you take? We have a 80 gallon tank and our shower has 2 main heads and 4 massage heads that flow a total of 10gpm, I have been in there before for a half hour and the water temp never dropped.

--Joe

 

[DBK]

Hmm. Probably more related to the fact we're constantly running dishwashers and washing machines. 4 people + 2 dogs + re-usable diapers = a lot of hot water being used.

:lol:

 

[soap]

To add some more info, we looked at the most bad as Rheem unit available which was a 96% efficient 200K BTU tankless, which wad rated at 9.8gpm, however that was with a Delta T of only like 40 degrees.....which is assuming ground water temps from down south where you are raising temps from 70 to 110. Up here in MI where we need a rise in temp of 70 degrees, the flow dropped 3.5 gpm. When a typical shower head flows 2gpm they are just not practical for a family. I was even told by several plumbers that tankless units just do not make sense in the northern states.

--Joe

 

[soap]

Here you go, right from Rheem's website, this is the baddest one they offer......

http://www.rheem.com/group/tankless-gas-water-heaters-condensing-tankless-gas-water-heaters

This should be the only thing you need to know to make your decision on, price is irrelevant. What is the point of putting in a water heater if it can not supply enough hot water? Keep in mind Michigan ground water temps are 42-44* and most people set their water heater to around 120* to be comfortable.......that is a 75+* Delta T, which means that unit will only flow about 4gpm. A typical faucet is 2gpm so that means if you run the shower and any other faucet you have maxed out the system. That is not very practical for most families.

--Joe

 

[Falcon64]

My guys install them weekly. They are nice and work great when installed correct. I get alot of service calls because of DIY guys don't up size the gas line for the btus needed. They do require annual cleaning due to mineral building up from the huge amount of heat when they fire up. I didn't install one at my house, I put in a AO Smith Vertex 100,000 btu. 96% rated and never run out of hot water. They're more money but I like them.

What about an electric tank less? I was thinking of installing one in my up northcabin for ease of winterizing etc. I currently have an electric 40 gallon but the tank is about shot because we have well water.

 

[yfz450]

I went tankless about a year ago. We plan to stay in this house forever, plus my basement is fully finished (I actually had a conventional water heater let loose and cause a big mess in my previous home), which factored into my choice to go tankless.

Pros: seemingly endless hot water supply; can use two showers at once, flush toilet in 2nd bathroom while taking shower in 2nd w/o water changing temp; frees up usable floor space

Cons: takes a while running wide open to get dish water hot; initial purchase price; haven't really decreased my monthly bill

 

[soap]

Pros: flush toilet in 2nd bathroom while taking shower in 2nd w/o water changing temp

Why is that a pro? A toilet obviously uses cold water. If your house was plumbed correctly the temp in your shower shouldn't change regardless of what else is being used in the the bathroom or rest of the house.

--Joe