Let's talk Power Steering

[mustangmike6996]

I'm at a crossroad with my 1969 Mustang. It's all stock suspension for the most part. All parts were replaced 10 years ago in the restoration process, well after 3 seasons of driving (probably less than 1k miles) I had ball joints fail and the steering control valve piss fluid everywhere.

I replaced ball joints and rebuilt the control valve (cost was like $80)

I started the car and the pump was making a ton of noise like rocks in a washing machine. I order the $8 seal kit and refurb it.. still making a bit of noise.

So, here is the crossroad:
For anyone familiar with 60s Mustang steering it's technically manual steering with power assist. It's got a control valve with a hydraulic ram and 4 hoses that love to leak. That coupled withy original gearbox that could use a rebuild due to play (tolerable but still need to be gone through eventually)

New replacement Ford TRW pump is about $250 plus eventual gearbox repair.

GM style Saginaw pump conversation is $300 with lines/fittings

GM pump and Borgeson power gearbox is $1k and solves both issues.

Keep all steering, modify column for EPAS so steering assistance is on the steering shaft ($100 parts) plus fab and eventual gearbox rebuild.

Looking for a brainstorm session with you guys to help me weigh out options from cost to work to what you guys would frown on at a car show etc.

I'm researching EPAS units now, which looks like HHR, VUE and Prius can be had for $100 plus I'd have to upgrade my alternator to a 3g Ford (wiring can handle the extra load demand, it's a new vehicle harness). The EPAS would tuck in the dash, power steering pump and lines would be removed from the engine. Steering components all stay as is and are new, just less hoses/control valve/etc

 

[DarkoStoj]

I'm going through a similar situation in my 68 Mustang and have spent a decent amount of time lately planning the build.

Options that I see

1. Full Manual - I think this is the most awesome option, just as long as the high effort at low speed steering doesn't bother you (Bothers most people). Lightest, cheapest, simplest, free, etc

2. Hyd Power Steering - I don't like the assist ram at all and I would ditch it. The borgeson setup that converts to more of a traditional box is nice and probably the option that makes the most sense.

3. EPAS - EPAS is pretty awesome, but the only thing I don't like about it...is that it turns the steering shaft into a torsion bar. In my car I am cutting up the front end to run a quick ratio rack that I will de-power and use the EPAS assist with a potentiometer to dial in how much assist I want. Turn it off at track, and dial in the perfect amount on street.

I wouldn't waste your time on a steering rack like unisteer or TCP.

If I was in your position I would:

1. Take off the steering pump & assist ram since it's free and see how you like it. If you rebuild your factory manual box, it will be even better

2. If full manual is no good it comes down to whether or not you pony up the cash for the EPAS kit (I would by the kit instead of piecing it all together) or the Borgeson setup. I personally like getting rid of the power steering pump if possible

3. Sell me the car ( I'm serious :lol: )

 

[avbcon12]

My 66 mustang is full manual from the factory. My wife hates it, I like it, typical scenario. There are times I wish it had power and have gone through all the above setups in my head but I still cant get past the 'Keep It Simple Stupid' setup.

 

[mustangmike6996]

My 66 mustang is full manual from the factory. My wife hates it, I like it, typical scenario. There are times I wish it had power and have gone through all the above setups in my head but I still cant get past the 'Keep It Simple Stupid' setup.

I will agree on the keep it simple aspect. The steering is way over complicated from the factory. Simple design and concept but too many failure points as well as the likelihood of leaking.

 

[derbydad276]

Do It ... you know you want too ...

https://www.heidts.com/part/ifs-for-64-70-mustang-and-67-70-cougar-and-60-65-falcon-and-64-65-comet/

 

[mustangmike6996]

I'm going through a similar situation in my 68 Mustang and have spent a decent amount of time lately planning the build.

Options that I see

1. Full Manual - I think this is the most awesome option, just as long as the high effort at low speed steering doesn't bother you (Bothers most people). Lightest, cheapest, simplest, free, etc

2. Hyd Power Steering - I don't like the assist ram at all and I would ditch it. The borgeson setup that converts to more of a traditional box is nice and probably the option that makes the most sense.

3. EPAS - EPAS is pretty awesome, but the only thing I don't like about it...is that it turns the steering shaft into a torsion bar. In my car I am cutting up the front end to run a quick ratio rack that I will de-power and use the EPAS assist with a potentiometer to dial in how much assist I want. Turn it off at track, and dial in the perfect amount on street.

I wouldn't waste your time on a steering rack like unisteer or TCP.

If I was in your position I would:

1. Take off the steering pump & assist ram since it's free and see how you like it. If you rebuild your factory manual box, it will be even better

2. If full manual is no good it comes down to whether or not you pony up the cash for the EPAS kit (I would by the kit instead of piecing it all together) or the Borgeson setup. I personally like getting rid of the power steering pump if possible

3. Sell me the car ( I'm serious :lol: )

I would kick myself in the ass forever if I sold it.

I drove the car without the steering assist stuff hooked up the first test drive around the block and I don't really like it being manual steering. I have a slightly smaller steering wheel so I can get my legs in the car (non-tilt column). So to go manual I'd have to get a tilt column and larger wheel which could be $500+

I like the Borgeson conversion but it's costly (not too expensive, just costly) It's most likely the only hydraulic option I'd consider. I potentially have a new Saginaw pump (unused on one boat Engine) so the box and line would be like $700 or so plus the cost of a pump bracket.

I like the idea of EPAS for packaging, and eliminating the pump/belt/hoses. But I agree on turning the steering shaft into a torsion bar.

I considered unisteer for a quick minute but then said nope. I kind of wish I did a Mustang 2 IFS from the beginning, because the cost would be comparable to what I've already spent on all new parts (some twice). That ship has sailed long ago though.

The steering gearbox isn't terrible at the moment, slight play left and right but not bad. I was going to pull it last year but the Pitman arm was being a pain so I left it as is. It's the only original part that I haven't either rebuilt or replaced at this point.

 

[grr456]

I have done a couple of these and the factory Ford parts aren't too bad when they are new and everything works decent. The big picture is to have your unit rebuilt and set-up by someone who knows them. It isn't too hard to rebuild the units but it takes forever to set them up yourself and it is very messy. People who rebuild them have a remote unit to adjust the right to left assist. That part is fuzzy to me right now, I just remember it wasn't too much fun.

There was a guy who rebuilt the steering boxes on Groesbeck and 13ish, but I think he isn't there anymore when I was checking for Darko.

I can tell you not to go to a rack set-up unless you buy a complete front suspension set-up made for a rack. All of the 'bolt on' units are junk and you'll have inches of bump steer and you don't want that.


Just my .02....grr

 

[mustangmike6996]

I have done a couple of these and the factory Ford parts aren't too bad when they are new and everything works decent. The big picture is to have your unit rebuilt and set-up by someone who knows them. It isn't too hard to rebuild the units but it takes forever to set them up yourself and it is very messy. People who rebuild them have a remote unit to adjust the right to left assist. That part is fuzzy to me right now, I just remember it wasn't too much fun.

There was a guy who rebuilt the steering boxes on Groesbeck and 13ish, but I think he isn't there anymore when I was checking for Darko.

I can tell you not to go to a rack set-up unless you buy a complete front suspension set-up made for a rack. All of the 'bolt on' units are junk and you'll have inches of bump steer and you don't want that.


Just my .02....grr

Thanks, good point about the bump steer.
I already rebuilt the control valve, it wasnt a horrible job but I did in on the car so it was much more difficult. I do need to adjust the left/right assist (It wants to bias right) but thats just done with an adjuster nut.

 

[mustangmike6996]

Do It ... you know you want too ...

https://www.heidts.com/part/ifs-for-64-70-mustang-and-67-70-cougar-and-60-65-falcon-and-64-65-comet/

If this was 10 years ago or I was redoing the whole front end, Id really consider it.

 

[sofa king]

Volvo's also have an electric type pump, S60, S50, a few others. Seems like a common swap/upgrade for a lot of people.

 

[dave89iroc]

to be fair.....all steering shafts twist when under torque, EPAS just has sensors to monitor the flex to calculate steering assist

 

[mustangmike6996]

to be fair.....all steering shafts twist when under torque, EPAS just has sensors to monitor the flex to calculate steering assist

Yea, I'm not ruling it out for that reason, but Ill probably overbuild the steering shaft if I go that route. I am still weighing out options. I want to say F-the EPAS but the overall cost and removal of hydraulic lines is super tempting.

I need to get on my boat and pull the extra Saginaw pump to see if I want to buy the adapter bracket for $50-80 or build my own.