Just FYI... A little about my experience with SPEC....

[LXFIVEOH]

At least its not a Lambo....

 

[raroz28]

I have used several SPEC clutches and I have beat the shit out of them ( I am sure most of you have seen the vids of 7000+ RPM launches). Never once did I have any issues. The only time I have seen any complaints is when the driver of the car simply does not know how to drive a manual transmission equiped car properly....Meaning riding or slipping the clutch to make the shifts seem "smoother" for a more comfortable driving experience. You may not think you are doing this, as most that do it do not know they are until it is pointed out this them. One of my best friends was having issues, we took it apart, cleaned it up, put it back together......then I tought him how to drive the car the correct way....that was 4 years ago. Same stage 2 spec clutch, today has 75K+ miles on it driven daily. Car made 475 RWHP (3600# supercharged mustang). Prior to this he had prematurely destroyed a clutch at less than 10K miles.

Also the numbers you are referencing are static figures based on surface area, clamp load, etc. This DOES NOT take into account the weight of the car, driving habits, etc. This is why you should have called and gotten a recommendation from them. Hell, I could have told you not to put a stage 1 in that car. A stage 2 is what you should have had at a minimum.

The fact that you got 20K miles out it over a few years is pretty damn good for the given situation, even if you had never raced it, etc.


Sorry that you feel you are getting the shit end of the stick here, but you are not. SPEC handled this exactly the way any other campany would.

So would you mind telling me what statistics they take into account when they claim that this clutch is good for 505tq then in the second line of the clutch description they claim long life, yet in a car with 70% of that power is running the clutch it lasts only 20k miles. What do you think they took into account to come up with the figure they are claiming?

I do not race the car, so I do not need to really learn how to drive the car. The car is granny shifted and rarely sees WOT. It has been slipping for a while and has finally given just about totally out.

You are talking as if I do not know how to drive a stick shift car, as if I ride it out. I have never owned anything but a stick shift, this is my 3rd stick shift car, and I am pretty sure I know how to drive them, as I've been driving them since 2002 when I got my first car.

You could have told me not to run that, but as an average gearhead reading what is on their site claiming 505tq, why would I have any reason to doubt it? It costs more than 2x what a stock clutch costs and is boasted to hold 505, so I thought with my car making under 400 I would be ok.

To those saying it is damn good to last 15k and slip another 5k is laughable to me, given how I know I drive the car.

What you guys need to understand is that if the site did not claim 505tq, I would not have bought it. That's where I feel like it didn't live up to their claim. Why in the world would I look at a clutch that is boasting over 600tq when I am not making CLOSE to that? The numbers are deceiving to an average buyer.

 

[Swifster]

Again, do you know what caused the clutch to fail? What is the strct definition of long life? Has this car been modified from a stock Camaro?

 

[robvas]

The rating is the maximum it will hold, not the recommend amount.

 

[QuickLX]

So would you mind telling me what statistics they take into account when they claim that this clutch is good for 505tq then in the second line of the clutch description they claim long life, yet in a car with 70% of that power is running the clutch it lasts only 20k miles. What do you think they took into account to come up with the figure they are claiming?

I do not race the car, so I do not need to really learn how to drive the car. The car is granny shifted and rarely sees WOT. It has been slipping for a while and has finally given just about totally out.

You are talking as if I do not know how to drive a stick shift car, as if I ride it out. I have never owned anything but a stick shift, this is my 3rd stick shift car, and I am pretty sure I know how to drive them, as I've been driving them since 2002 when I got my first car.

You could have told me not to run that, but as an average gearhead reading what is on their site claiming 505tq, why would I have any reason to doubt it? It costs more than 2x what a stock clutch costs and is boasted to hold 505, so I thought with my car making under 400 I would be ok.

To those saying it is damn good to last 15k and slip another 5k is laughable to me, given how I know I drive the car.

What you guys need to understand is that if the site did not claim 505tq, I would not have bought it. That's where I feel like it didn't live up to their claim. Why in the world would I look at a clutch that is boasting over 600tq when I am not making CLOSE to that? The numbers are deceiving to an average buyer.

Again, as I mentioned before:

The torque rating is based on clamp force, surface area etc. There are no "statistics" as you put it. When these clutches are engineered, they can use safety factors and such, but beyond that there are far too many variables that can change the limitations of a clutch.

variables that could kill a clutch:

1. Type of tire
2. Gear ratio
3. RPM
4. weight of car
5. driving style (street, strip, both, 2-step launches, etc.)
6. installation
7. etc
8 etc

The same goes for an automatic....The trans in my car has been low 7's in a light car.....Define light? I can tell you right now that if I try to go low 7's with it in my car, it will be scattered all over the track.

 

[grr456]

The rating is the maximum it will hold, not the recommend amount.

Yeah, that may be true, but if you have 400 ft pounds TQ, then a clutch with a 500 ft pound capacity gives you a 25% safety factor, which is more than reasonable on a street driven car. How often would the clutch be seeing the max torque, anyway? Normally, it would be seeing about 150 ft pounds to get the car rolling, then it only decreases from there. To maintain a constant speed, it probably sees less than 50 ft pounds of tq.

If that isn't the case, then convince someone to spend twice as much over a stock clutch to get the same, or less, life expectancy.

FWIW - I did quite a bit of engineering work for a place called Midwest Brake on Groesbeck and 11 Mile. They manufacture clutches and brakes for all types of machinery, including 100 ton presses. How do you think they stop those things?

Gary

 

[84mercury]

missunderstood,I didn't catch the part about a disc for200$ I thought that was a new clutch kit for 200$ The other thing that came to mind. how long does a set of tires and brakes last on a new car? 40-60K how long does the second set last? Maybe 15-20K due to all other components not being new and true.

 

[robvas]

Isn't that rating what it will hold before it will slip, not the amount of power it will 'grip to'?

 

[raroz28]

Again, as I mentioned before:

The torque rating is based on clamp force, surface area etc. There are no "statistics" as you put it. When these clutches are engineered, they can use safety factors and such, but beyond that there are far too many variables that can change the limitations of a clutch.

variables that could kill a clutch:

1. Type of tire
2. Gear ratio
3. RPM
4. weight of car
5. driving style (street, strip, both, 2-step launches, etc.)
6. installation
7. etc
8 etc

The same goes for an automatic....The trans in my car has been low 7's in a light car.....Define light? I can tell you right now that if I try to go low 7's with it in my car, it will be scattered all over the track.

What I meant was static numbers. I was asking you what THEY based THEIR 505tq rating on. Trans, gears, tires are all factory. Granny style driving, no hard launching, no burnouts, no clutch drops.

That is what I'm saying. What are they basing it on that this clutch is good for 505tq when it cannot handle approx 375tq.

 

[raroz28]

missunderstood,I didn't catch the part about a disc for200$ I thought that was a new clutch kit for 200$ The other thing that came to mind. how long does a set of tires and brakes last on a new car? 40-60K how long does the second set last? Maybe 15-20K due to all other components not being new and true.

Not sure, I did my brakes 30k miles away with new pads and rotors all around and they still look new. Also, my tires were put on a few years ago and still have plenty of life left. Not sure what you are basing this assumption on. I have not had problems with new brake pads wearing prematurely myself, but if I had, I am sure advance would be happy to replace them.

 

[raroz28]

Yeah, that may be true, but if you have 400 ft pounds TQ, then a clutch with a 500 ft pound capacity gives you a 25% safety factor, which is more than reasonable on a street driven car. How often would the clutch be seeing the max torque, anyway? Normally, it would be seeing about 150 ft pounds to get the car rolling, then it only decreases from there. To maintain a constant speed, it probably sees less than 50 ft pounds of tq.

If that isn't the case, then convince someone to spend twice as much over a stock clutch to get the same, or less, life expectancy.

FWIW - I did quite a bit of engineering work for a place called Midwest Brake on Groesbeck and 11 Mile. They manufacture clutches and brakes for all types of machinery, including 100 ton presses. How do you think they stop those things?

Gary

I agree with you, obviously. And like you said, why would I buy their clutch for 2x+ what a factory clutch costs? YOU COULDN'T CONVINCE ANYBODY TO DO THAT! If it's only good for a stock setup car, then they should say that and not 505tq cause that is pretty deceiving.

 

[Birdie2000]

Since we're somewhat on the subject, what is the "proper" way to drive a manual transmission on the street? You've kind of said what not to do, but what is the proper way to drive a manual for long clutch life, etc.? I don't think I'm a bad manual driver but I'm always looking to improve and want to make sure I'm doing it right.

 

[orangejuiced86]

I ran a SPEC in my orange car. No issues. Stage 3.

The more important question here would be:

"Why would you modify a car and NOT beat on it?"

 

[raroz28]

I ran a SPEC in my orange car. No issues. Stage 3.

The more important question here would be:

"Why would you modify a car and NOT beat on it?"

I had 3 cars and a bike when I modified my car. Since then, I have lost my job, my cars, wrecked my bike, and with gas prices devastating my bank account, I am always driving to and from school in a reasonable matter. I don't even joyride it anymore like I used to. I can't even really afford to just get in and take a long drive down the river or around town - it's too expensive and with my driving habits I've been able to get over 16MPGs which is pretty darn good.

I see that you are asking that question as if to say "Sure, you modified the car just to drive it like a granny? Riiiight."

But it's true. This car is just a daily driver but IT'S THE ONLY THING I OWN after losing everything I had worked for in the past. I don't race or romp on this car, I use it to get from point A to point B and try to get the best MPG possible.

 

[raroz28]

Since we're somewhat on the subject, what is the "proper" way to drive a manual transmission on the street? You've kind of said what not to do, but what is the proper way to drive a manual for long clutch life, etc.? I don't think I'm a bad manual driver but I'm always looking to improve and want to make sure I'm doing it right.

You don't burn out, drop the clutch, or pretend you're johnny racer. You drive the speed limit, push the clutch to the floor and shift, and engage smoothly and not like you're racing.

It's very easy to do.

 

[raroz28]

Interesting tidbits...

this is from thunderracing.com
SPEC Clutch, 1993-1997 LT1 F-body, Stage 1
(480 torque rating)

This is from ws6store.com
SPEC Stage 1 Clutch Kit for 93-97 LT1 F-Body. High clamp pressure plate, steel-backed woven organic disk, TO bear, pilot bearing and tool. 400 ft lbs tq capacity.

Lmperformance.com and SPEC both claim 505tq, wish I would have seen the different variations and pieced it together before I bought it. Looks like ws6store has the most accurate rating, and the others are just rubbish.