Electrical subpanel question

[Siegel1719]

I'm upgrading to a 200 amp service at my new house. I'm not replacing the old subpanel in the garage and it is only a 3 wire feed with grounds and neutrals tied together. Will the inspector require me to run a new ground back to the new panel or can I leave it as is since I'm not touching that panel.

 

[ReiKo]

I'm upgrading to a 200 amp service at my new house. I'm not replacing the old subpanel in the garage and it is only a 3 wire feed with grounds and neutrals tied together. Will the inspector require me to run a new ground back to the new panel or can I leave it as is since I'm not touching that panel.

Upgrade it... at this point do everything the right way...

 

[Killjoy]

Only the inspector can tell you the answer 100%, unfortunately. Theoretically, as long as you're only replacing the SEC + panel, and just reconnecting the existing subpanel feeders as they were prior, the inspector cannot make you bring that feed up to current code. Just like he can't make you install hardwired smokes in each BR/hallway/floor, GFCI all bathroom/kitchen/outdoor/garage receptacles, upgrade all 3-wire range/dryer branch circuits to 4-wire, etc. But you may get a cranky inspector and he's likely going to win any arguments.

That said, I'd prefer to pull the 4th conductor and bring that up to code as well. If you do that, you'll also likely need to install a couple new ground rods for the subpanel. Make sure you pull permits for the work, and let your homeowners know the work was done once completed and signed off - will reduce your premium.

Would also suggest installing a whole house surge suppressor while you're replacing the main panel. Eaton CHSPT2ULTRA work well. Supply houses usually sell them cheaper than retail outlets.

 

[Siegel1719]

Only the inspector can tell you the answer 100%, unfortunately. Theoretically, as long as you're only replacing the SEC + panel, and just reconnecting the existing subpanel feeders as they were prior, the inspector cannot make you bring that feed up to current code. Just like he can't make you install hardwired smokes in each BR/hallway/floor, GFCI all bathroom/kitchen/outdoor/garage receptacles, upgrade all 3-wire range/dryer branch circuits to 4-wire, etc. But you may get a cranky inspector and he's likely going to win any arguments.

That said, I'd prefer to pull the 4th conductor and bring that up to code as well. If you do that, you'll also likely need to install a couple new ground rods for the subpanel. Make sure you pull permits for the work, and let your homeowners know the work was done once completed and signed off - will reduce your premium.

Would also suggest installing a whole house surge suppressor while you're replacing the main panel. Eaton CHSPT2ULTRA work well. Supply houses usually sell them cheaper than retail outlets.

Thanks. Im going to go talk to the inspector today about what will be required. It turns out the garage actually isnt a subpanel. They double tapped the bottom of the meter so its a second service of the main meter with likely isn't allowed.

Thanks
Jeremy

 

[ReiKo]

Thanks. Im going to go talk to the inspector today about what will be required. It turns out the garage actually isnt a subpanel. They double tapped the bottom of the meter so its a second service of the main meter with likely isn't allowed.

Thanks
Jeremy

Yeah he's not going to be happy...

 

[Killjoy]

Thanks. Im going to go talk to the inspector today about what will be required. It turns out the garage actually isnt a subpanel. They double tapped the bottom of the meter so its a second service of the main meter with likely isn't allowed.

Thanks
Jeremy

So, if the meter base has 2 lugs per conductor, then you are allowed to double/parallel tap as you've described. However, you cannot simply double up 2 conductors into one lug. Some (rare) 200A meter bases have options for 2 lugs per, almost all 320A bases do. You also must have a disconnect on each feed right after the meter on the outside of the house, as NEC mandates there must be a single point where all power can be disconnected - so a main breaker in the basement, and another main breaker in the garage, doesn't fly (not to mention the unfused feeder running to the garage). You'd also need to bond the ground and neutrals together at that grouped/common disconnect point, etc.

Since you didn't mention any disconnects, odds are low they did it to code back when it was done. If so, odds are high your inspector will not pass your service upgrade permit. I'd also suggest going over everything else and making sure other corners weren't cut. And your best bet is likely to upgrade the main service to 200A, and re-feed the garage off a 60-100A breaker in the main panel with new conductors to the sub panel, bringing the sub panel up to code as well (2 ground rods, etc.)

 

[Siegel1719]

Talked with the Inspector today. Hes a really great guy and drew out everything I need to bring it up to code. Ill be installing a separate disconnect directly inside the house next to the main panel that will feed the garage. This will keep the garage panel an independent panel instead of a sub panel so it will only require grounding rods at the garage instead of having to run a new ground back to the main panel.

 

[dave89iroc]

Talked with the Inspector today. Hes a really great guy and drew out everything I need to bring it up to code. Ill be installing a separate disconnect directly inside the house next to the main panel that will feed the garage. This will keep the garage panel an independent panel instead of a sub panel so it will only require grounding rods at the garage instead of having to run a new ground back to the main panel.

technically, if it is fed from a disconnect, it is still a sub panel, but if the inspector passes it, its good